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Cristi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2024 at 03:20
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

OK - let's lob a few hand grenades:
Ian Anderson (since c2010) - I saw him in concert and he was atrocious. He was great in 1984, though.
James LaBrie - that'll upset a few people, but he's the main reason I can't listen to Dream Theater (but not the only one).
Roger Waters - I just can't stand his voice
Dave Lawson (Greenslade)

I think all singers you mention here can sing, it's just that you dislike them.

When it comes to James LaBrie, although he is an extraordinarily good singer, I've seen him live a couple of times and he was not able to hit the notes properly. Good singer, terrible live singing. Unfortunately! 

LaBrie is hardly the worst singer  in progressive metal, but being one of the most famous, he gets the most flak. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2024 at 04:10
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

OK - let's lob a few hand grenades:
Ian Anderson (since c2010) - I saw him in concert and he was atrocious. He was great in 1984, though.
James LaBrie - that'll upset a few people, but he's the main reason I can't listen to Dream Theater (but not the only one).
Roger Waters - I just can't stand his voice
Dave Lawson (Greenslade)

I think all singers you mention here can sing, it's just that you dislike them.

When it comes to James LaBrie, although he is an extraordinarily good singer, I've seen him live a couple of times and he was not able to hit the notes properly. Good singer, terrible live singing. Unfortunately! 

LaBrie is hardly the worst singer  in progressive metal, but being one of the most famous, he gets the most flak. 

Well said! It's a perfect example of the Tall Poppy Syndrome, where talented individuals who stand out by achieving success are often subjected to unfair criticism and resentment. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2024 at 04:56
Ian Anderson's current singing is awful, just can't hit the notes and tries reaching for them. Was wonderful previously but walked out of his last show halfway through as it was too painful to hear.
Ian

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2024 at 05:46
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:



That's pretty neat and thanks for sharing that. I once played around with auto-tune stuff back in 2005 because I liked the watery/warbly effect it made. I can't sing worth sh*t, so this gives me some ideas. I'm likely to use it to make my singing even worse than it already is, and I would do that on purpose. Sort of like trying to make it sound like I'm singing from inside a burrito or a bag of pretzels.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Floydoid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2024 at 06:06
Dare I mention Bob Dylan - for all his genius as a musician and seminal composer... his singing always sounds slightly off key to me.
Is it any wonder that the monkey's confused?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2024 at 07:05
Originally posted by Floydoid Floydoid wrote:

Dare I mention Bob Dylan - for all his genius as a musician and seminal composer... his singing always sounds slightly off key to me.

Hi,

I think there are other things at play here. Bob is known to get bored and change the lyrics, so changing with his moods and "singing" it whichever way he wants each night is no big deal for him.

This was one of the reasons why in the late 60's and early 70's Bob's bootlegs were so huge ... everything was different in one way or another. 

So, expecting him to "sing" something within a style/idea that we want to see, isn't going to happen. Bob sings/speaks his lyrics in whatever way they make sense for him. That would be something vastly different than not being able to sing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2024 at 07:46
I agree, Bob is being Bob, he's performing what he wants to perform & we appreciate it or not. I know a lot of people don't like his singing but he's the artist.
Ian

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2024 at 07:56
Anyone bashing Yoko will need to turn in their pans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2024 at 08:15
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Well said! It's a perfect example of the Tall Poppy Syndrome, where talented individuals who stand out by achieving success are often subjected to unfair criticism and resentment. Confused
It's not unfair. A singer either hits the notes or not, it's not a matter of taste or opinion. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2024 at 08:16
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I agree, Bob is being Bob, he's performing what he wants to perform & we appreciate it or not. I know a lot of people don't like his singing but he's the artist.

There' an objective component to the criticism (he sings out of tune) as well as a subjective (I like it or I don't like it). The fact that he's BOB DYLAN doesn't change the former.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Floydoid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2024 at 08:41
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I agree, Bob is being Bob, he's performing what he wants to perform & we appreciate it or not. I know a lot of people don't like his singing but he's the artist.


There' an objective component to the criticism (he sings out of tune) as well as a subjective (I like it or I don't like it). The fact that he's BOB DYLAN doesn't change the former.


I totally agree.
Is it any wonder that the monkey's confused?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2024 at 10:21
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...
There' an objective component to the criticism (he sings out of tune) as well as a subjective (I like it or I don't like it). ,,,

Hi,

Bob is not the only one that sings out of tune and makes it work. Neil Young is another. Robert Wyatt is another. Out of tune is based on one musical design ... and in many other cultures, where they also have music, they sing differently than the conventions we think, and expect, to define what singing is! Sometimes it is easier to say Mick Jagger can't sing as well, but he is excellent at telling you what his words mean and stand for ... and you don't forget it!

Reminds me of a comment in Robert Wyatt's book about Syd ... when a guitarist involved in the 2nd album, asks Robert what key Syd was in. Robert's reply? He don't know the chords or the keys ... he just plays! 

Music, is much more than what we think it should be!




Edited by moshkito - January 12 2024 at 10:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duchamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2024 at 03:26
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ She's a bad musician. Deal?
The concept of a "bad musician" is subjective, you can't really treat your opinion as a objective fact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2024 at 03:48
^ Some of it is opinion, some is not. A musician either hits a note, or not. Sometimes sloppiness can be intentional, I can grant that. I've heard the claim that Yoko Ono does not sing, but that it is "avant-garde screaming". In which case I guess anything goes. But even then, it is BAD SINGING. She has, to my knowledge, not demonstrated that she can sing well. That sets here apart from accomplished vocalists, like for instance Mike Patton, who can scream and growl atonaly but then also sing perfectly clean, hitting every note precisely as it is intended.

TL;DR: Yes, she is still a bad singer/musician. Feel free to point me to a recording which you think demonstrates otherwise.


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - January 15 2024 at 03:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2024 at 04:22
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ Some of it is opinion, some is not. A musician either hits a note, or not. Sometimes sloppiness can be intentional, I can grant that. I've heard the claim that Yoko Ono does not sing, but that it is "avant-garde screaming". In which case I guess anything goes. But even then, it is BAD SINGING. 
...
She has, to my knowledge, not demonstrated that she can sing well.
...

HIi,

I'm not sure why we are so disappointed, and consider it bad/incorrect when someone does something intentionally, as appears the case to be with Yoko.

One forgets in the 60's, for example, film had a scene called "anti-film" that many directors took part in, and the idea was to break down, and through all the conventions that film had which could be found ... the idea was that something else will appear, and it does, but, the "results" are not something that we could possibly expect. And Godard, never tired of having fun at our expense! Theater had its Pinter and Beckett and others ... that went out on a limb ... how about cigarette smoke rings, being "dialogue" within a play? 

Likewise, a lot of music in the late 60's also ran into the "anti-music" idea by being completely different with a lot of counter everything in it, and many of these groups we actually like and discuss ... but in some ways, they come off as "academic" as opposed to just right out in the open. Heck, I know some folks that thought Dagmar couldn't sing a note either! 

I kinda think that we have this idea that if it doesn't fit the mold it is WRONG. IN the realm of the arts ... "wrong" has been its creator for hundreds and hundreds of years ... why are we so against it now? Yeah ... it's Yoko's fault ... (what a name for a group!!!)

I suppose that it could be said that Yoko is doing something similar, and there are times when it seems to reach levels that we consider bad in the realms of singing. My question is ... if it is NOT singing, how can we value it as "bad"? 


Edited by moshkito - January 15 2024 at 04:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2024 at 04:29

I'm sorry, it's simply bad. If you are one of those people who cannot ever criticise any artist, well, I won't comment any further since that will lead us down the road of anger and name-calling.

Or let's say it in the words of my favorite TV series:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2024 at 04:34
Or consider these lyrics by the late, great Kevin Gilbert:

"And we're gonna play the new Madonna where she rips a fart
And then stand around talking about why it's art"

It's not automatically art (or good) just because you say it is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2024 at 05:05
^Why Madonna?
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

I'm sorry, it's simply bad. If you are one of those people who cannot ever criticise any artist, well, I won't comment any further since that will lead us down the road of anger and name-calling.
Yes that was horrible. But regardless of the can't or can sing-discussion, I quite like Yoko Ono's imperfect singing. I'm picky when it comes to vocals in my own way, but lot of vocalists I really like doesn't sing conventionally "perfect". The two first sides on Approximately Infinite Universe is quite lovely. I guess you won't enjoy it as much as I do, but maybe you'll be at least a little surprised. 


Edited by Saperlipopette! - January 15 2024 at 07:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2024 at 05:30
^ That's not too bad! It's drawn out too long for my taste, and the avant-garde part in the middle seems contrived, but it's the best I've heard from Yoko so far.
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