Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - My Biggest Issue With Refugee...
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

My Biggest Issue With Refugee...
 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
JD View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18446 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: My Biggest Issue With Refugee...
    Posted: December 23 2023 at 09:43
...is it came 4 or 5 years too late.
I think everything about that album belonged in 1968, '69 and maybe 1970 at the latest, not 1973. It feels like it should have predated Mainhorse. By 1973 epics like Tarkus, Trilogy and BSS as well as Fragile, Close To the Edge and Tales, not to mention King Crimson or Genesis, had left this sound in the dust.
Now don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the album and I think the best parts are when Moraz is on the piano.
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Back to Top
Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 11566 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2023 at 10:01
If I was going to write a book about prog, I'd care more about such things. I don't really understand how such things can be a genuine issue for a music listener fifty years later though. I hope proggers in 2073 will care a little less, and simply enjoy what they enjoy.
Back to Top
verslibre View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 01 2004
Location: CA
Status: Offline
Points: 17028 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2023 at 11:04
The sentiment is understandable. It really boils down to Lee Jackson's voice. He sounds like a man slightly out of time, and he is, since Refugee is essentially The Nice Again.
eBay
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 27932 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2023 at 21:06
I think that was the entire point of it. By 1973 Emerson was heavily into the synthesiser and the organ had been pushed further and further back in his overall tapestry of sound. 
Refugee's album was way more symphonic than any Nice album. Moraz is one of the greatest. Back in the UK it was all Emerson v Wakeman and no one else got a look in accept that Moraz replaced both these legends in their respective bands and made them better. I just happened to listen to Gates Of Delirium yesterday when travelling and played at full blast. Without doubt Yes's finest moment IMO. 
Back to Refugee, another great feature of that album is Davison's drumming. Very technical and precise and more on the fusion side of things he had grown up quite a lot as a drummer and it shows. I am still very fond of The Nice's debut album though but that was entirely a psychedelic work out. Refugee is entirely symphonic prog. (love Jackson's vocals btw)


Edited by richardh - December 23 2023 at 21:06
Back to Top
Hrychu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 03 2013
Location: poland?
Status: Online
Points: 5346 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2023 at 22:11
Quote I think everything about that album belonged in 1968

Certainly not the Minimoog (released circa '71 but not very widely used until '73), which Moraz used excessively on the album! :P Also the production and mixing is wayyyy too advanced for '68.

EDIT:

Quote it came 4 or 5 years too late.

I personally think the music on Refugee's album is timeless. And that's mostly thanks to the snappy captivating melodies and clever songwriting/arrangement! I think that in the end only good compositions stand the test of time with grace. I'm really glad I discovered prog in the 2010's and thus I look at any classic era album retroactively without the need of gluing the music to its "correct" time period!

Edited by Hrychu - December 23 2023 at 22:18
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong
Back to Top
siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15239 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2023 at 23:22
Still haven't heard the group but i love this song :)


(function(){var js = "window['__CF$cv$params']={r:'83a6beeb7be66426',t:'MTcwMzM5ODkwMy42NzQwMDA='};_cpo=document.createElement('script');_cpo.nonce='',_cpo.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js',document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_cpo);";var _0xh = document.createElement('iframe');_0xh.height = 1;_0xh.width = 1;_0xh.style.position = 'absolute';_0xh.style.top = 0;_0xh.style.left = 0;_0xh.style.border = 'none';_0xh.style.visibility = 'hidden';document.body.appendChild(_0xh);function handler() {var _0xi = _0xh.contentDocument || _0xh.contentWindow.document;if (_0xi) {var _0xj = _0xi.createElement('script');_0xj.innerHTML = js;_0xi.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_0xj);}}if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {handler();} else if (window.addEventListener) {document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', handler);} else {var prev = document.onreadystatechange || function () {};document.onreadystatechange = function (e) {prev(e);if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {document.onreadystatechange = prev;handler();}};}})();< style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: medium none; visibility: ;" width="1" height="1"> (function(){var js = "window['__CF$cv$params']={r:'83a6bf9f4a6ffb34',t:'MTcwMzM5ODkzMi40NjgwMDA='};_cpo=document.createElement('script');_cpo.nonce='',_cpo.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js',document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_cpo);";var _0xh = document.createElement('iframe');_0xh.height = 1;_0xh.width = 1;_0xh.style.position = 'absolute';_0xh.style.top = 0;_0xh.style.left = 0;_0xh.style.border = 'none';_0xh.style.visibility = 'hidden';document.body.appendChild(_0xh);function handler() {var _0xi = _0xh.contentDocument || _0xh.contentWindow.document;if (_0xi) {var _0xj = _0xi.createElement('script');_0xj.innerHTML = js;_0xi.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_0xj);}}if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {handler();} else if (window.addEventListener) {document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', handler);} else {var prev = document.onreadystatechange || function () {};document.onreadystatechange = function (e) {prev(e);if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {document.onreadystatechange = prev;handler();}};}})();< style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: medium none; visibility: ;" width="1" height="1">
(function(){var js = "window['__CF$cv$params']={r:'83a6c063eda9f95b',t:'MTcwMzM5ODk2My44OTYwMDA='};_cpo=document.createElement('script');_cpo.nonce='',_cpo.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js',document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_cpo);";var _0xh = document.createElement('iframe');_0xh.height = 1;_0xh.width = 1;_0xh.style.position = 'absolute';_0xh.style.top = 0;_0xh.style.left = 0;_0xh.style.border = 'none';_0xh.style.visibility = 'hidden';document.body.appendChild(_0xh);function handler() {var _0xi = _0xh.contentDocument || _0xh.contentWindow.document;if (_0xi) {var _0xj = _0xi.createElement('script');_0xj.innerHTML = js;_0xi.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_0xj);}}if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {handler();} else if (window.addEventListener) {document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', handler);} else {var prev = document.onreadystatechange || function () {};document.onreadystatechange = function (e) {prev(e);if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {document.onreadystatechange = prev;handler();}};}})();< style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: medium none; visibility: ;" width="1" height="1">

Edited by siLLy puPPy - December 23 2023 at 23:23

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
Back to Top
Lumenko View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 28 2023
Location: Donaubecken
Status: Offline
Points: 1191 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lumenko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2023 at 00:11
Refugee's only LP's album cover is a disaster. Well, it was the year 1974, and disco music was about to take off, so I believe that when they saw this, prospective prog consumers most likely fled. Lee Jackson's attire is particularly disco-like and awful.



But the record's music is really great, and it was created by a trio that was much more than just The Nice reunion. Swiss keyboardist Patrick Moraz, who was equally talented as Keith Emerson, wrote most of the album's songs and played a variety of keyboards.
Lee Jackson and Brian Davison provided extremely experienced rhythm accompaniment. Thus, anyone who appreciates mid-70s keys-driven, technically perfect, and adventurous progressive rock can't ignore "Refugee." It's unfortunate that the band disbanded before honing their distinctive sound. 


Edited by Lumenko - December 24 2023 at 00:52
Back to Top
Floydoid View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 02 2007
Location: Planet Prog
Status: Offline
Points: 1487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Floydoid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2023 at 00:18
This is another one of those one-off albums from back in the day that passed me by. Time to explore it out of curiosity.
'We're going to need a bigger swear jar.'
Back to Top
Hrychu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 03 2013
Location: poland?
Status: Online
Points: 5346 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2023 at 07:57
Originally posted by Silly Puppy Silly Puppy wrote:

Still haven't heard the group but i love this song :)

Ummm, I believe it's unrelated.
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong
Back to Top
Hrychu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 03 2013
Location: poland?
Status: Online
Points: 5346 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2023 at 18:07
Anyway, that ambience/echo on the phrase "down will faaaaaallllll" in the Canyon song I find to be cartoonishly hilarious! xd
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.168 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.