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nick_h_nz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2022 at 09:43
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

By the way, has English language taken over the term Warmduscher, or do you need to be (or know well) German to know what that means?

Please do tell. I guess I could use Google Translate, but I’m sure you will give me a better answer.
Literally, it's somebody who prefers to have a warm shower. At some point, I guess in the 1990s, some people started to use this for somebody who doesn't take risks and likes everything nice and comforting. For some reason this became very popular and people made fun out of all kinds of other things that could be associated with it such as "laughing-about-your-boss's-jokes" or "manual reader" (which I very proudly am), and hardly a day passed by without anybody inventing a new synonym for Warmduscher to cheer up or annoy their friends with. Now I know that German humour is not for everyone (as far as it exists Wink), and the obsession with dissing warm showers is now long gone, but for a window of time it was quite something.

I've seen them now by the way, and find them OK... the music is good but the vocals are not my cup of tea, and not everybody on stage seemed to enjoy what they were doing there. On the other hand I had seen some 3 minutes of Idles on Friday and thought this is not for me, but now have given them a second chance and like them much more (even though once more the voice is an acquired taste at best). Same issue by the way with Skunk Anansie... I think it's really a weakness of mine when it comes to music appreciation that there is a pretty wide range of singers/voices that I have a hard time tolerating, and some more that I find very mediocre compared with the musician's skills in the same band, and that would surely drag a band down in my appreciation (if occasionally not very far, Idles being an example).

My big issue with Warmduscher is definitely the vocals. It’s odd, because most of the time I can get past vocals I don’t particularly like, if I enjoy the music. I can’t stand Jon Anderson’s voice, but I like Yes. I’m not at all a fan of Billy Corgan’s voice, but I like Smashing Pumpkins. And within the new wave of post punk there are a number of vocalists that aren’t to my taste, but I still like the music. I don’t like the vocals for black midi or for Idles, but I enjoy the music of both bands. But somehow, I still struggle with Warmduscher. I have to say I did find their Glastonbury set to be the least inspired and least inspiring of all I’ve watched so far. As you say, some of them didn’t appear to have any interest in being there. Or maybe they were just renting to be too cool for Glastonbury. Whatever, something about their performance did rub me up the wrong way, though I still enjoyed it.

I love Skin’s vocals, but she has definitely sounded better. I guess maybe age has something to do with it? Not many can keep belting out their voice with the same power as they did in their youth. Back in the day, both live and in studio, no one could touch Skin’s voice for power and passion. Well, I say that, and I know plenty of people could easily refute that, and provide examples. But I’m speaking more for my personal musical experience. I didn’t have anywhere near the experience and awareness of the vastness of the musical world back then, and to me Skin was simply awesome. So there’s always a possibility that nostalgia allowed me to enjoy the Skunk Anansie set more than someone who wasn’t previously a fan of the band.

[EDIT] it also occurs to me, that if one only listened to the first song of their set, one could easily get perhaps the wrong impression of the band. I found it the weakest of the set, even though it is a song I have loved hearing live in the past. Skin’s voice seemed strained, and the song suffered because of that. The remainder of the set, though, I thought was considerably better, so maybe she just needed to warm up?




Edited by nick_h_nz - June 27 2022 at 10:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2022 at 11:18
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

it also occurs to me, that if one only listened to the first song of their set, one could easily get perhaps the wrong impression of the band. I found it the weakest of the set, even though it is a song I have loved hearing live in the past. Skin’s voice seemed strained, and the song suffered because of that. The remainder of the set, though, I thought was considerably better, so maybe she just needed to warm up?

With that I agree.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2022 at 11:29
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

I really enjoyed Skunk Anansie, and I recommend Nubya Garcia to anyone who likes fusion; it's a contemporary take on fusion with exotic North West London flavas, but the musicianship is excellent and the grooves are infectious.
I love Nubya Garcia, so will definitely eventually work my way to her. I’m watching Bonobo at the moment, as I was interested to see how a lovely performance would look and sound.

Bonobo is essentially the stage name for Simon Green, who is an electronic musician who began in the trip hop and broken beat scene. I came to him by way of a recommendation from someone who knew I love Mark de Clive-Lowe, who was one of the pioneers of broken beat. Like Mark de Clive Lowe, that mix of jazz, electronic, funk and percussion heavy “world” music remains part of Bonobo’s sound, but utilities a lot more acoustic instrumentation, and he performs live with a full band. Like Mark de Clive Lowe, Bonobo is often now lumped in with the nu-)azz scene, which makes sense as broken beat is one of the scenes that gave rise to the nu-jazz scene.

Watching it is very much like watching a Mark de Clive-Lowe show, with Bonobo leading things from behind his synths and samplers, and so much going on across the stage to recreate his sounds. While much of the sound is coming from Bonobo, it is augmented beautifully by the live drums and brass section, etc. It’s a far more interesting and enjoyable set to watch than I expected.

[EDIT] (to add a Bandcamp link)

As I enjoyed the Bonobo set, I thought I’d give Caribou a go. Again an electronic solo artist who chooses to utilise a full band for his live performances, but this time not from a broken beat background. And, honestly, it is nowhere near as enjoyable, and Dan Snaith really doesn’t use the live musicians to his advantage in anywhere near the way Bonobo (and Mark de Clive Lowe) do. But I’m not sure if I didn’t enjoy it so much, because it’s further from my comfort zone. There were certainly some numbers I enjoyed far more than others. I guess I enjoyed it enough to keep listening, as I did listen to the whole set, but I’m not sure when or if I’ll be returning to Caribou to further explore his music. 🤔

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gentle and Giant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2022 at 11:51
I knew beforehand which sets I wanted to watch. Those being black midi and Squid. Both were excellent but I don't think many of the crowd at West Hols stage had much of an idea of black midi and it all seemed a bit flat because of that - despite the energy of the band themselves. I've kept copies of both sets for the future, but the black midi recording has the song Eat Men Eat cut due to excessive swearing (it was shown during the live stream)

I did see some of Billie Eilish, which was OK; also Diana Ross, whose voice is sadly passed it these days - I winced a lot throughout.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2022 at 12:06
Originally posted by Gentle and Giant Gentle and Giant wrote:

I knew beforehand which sets I wanted to watch. Those being black midi and Squid. Both were excellent but I don't think many of the crowd at West Hols stage had much of an idea of black midi and it all seemed a bit flat because of that - despite the energy of the band themselves.
I noticed that, and thought the same. I was quite surprised to see so little interest shown by the crowd, as I thought black midi were better known and liked. Contrasting their set with other post punk bands playing, the lack of audience interest really showed.

Idles are, I suspect, the most well-known and popular of the new wave of post punk bands in the UK, and that definitely showed. The difference between the crowd’s reaction to Idles and to black midi was like two opposite ends of a spectrum. And you could see the band really bounced off the audience as much as the other way around. The Idles set was probably the most enjoyable of all the post punk Glasto sets I’ve watched, even though when it comes to their studio albums, I would put them a considerable distance behind black midi and Squid in my affections. It just goes to show how great the difference can be between studio and live.

Fontaines DC also put on a good performance, as did Dry Cleaning, and they both also seemed to get more of a reaction from the audience than black midi. Maybe black midi’s main fanbase and the average Glasto festival goer are mutually exclusive? It was a shame, though. They seemed to still be enjoying themselves, but it must have been hard seeing the lack of reaction from the crowd.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2022 at 13:34
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Maybe black midi’s main fanbase and the average Glasto festival goer are mutually exclusive? 

I thought the same. As I wrote earlier, black midi are intellectual and demanding, not really "have a good time" music. And neither your typical angry young men & women stuff. Their emotionality just isn't very direct. And then there wasn't really a second band catering to an audience who'd like that. Even Squid, quite clearly closest to black midi in the lineup, are far more accessible to a standard festival goer, I'd say.


Edited by Lewian - June 27 2022 at 13:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2022 at 02:42
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

By the way is there anyone from a non-anglophone country that isn't Ukraine? I don't think I've seen even a single one.
I’ve started my day with Burna Boy, who is definitely not performing in English at the moment!
He is a Nigerian artist who describes his music as Afro-Fusion, and that seems an apt label, as you can quite a few genres mixed into his music. I’m quite enjoying it. It’s a nice easy start to the day…

[EDIT] And I’ve remained in an Afro-Fusion way, by following Burna Boy with Seun Kuti & Egypt 80. So more Nigerian music, for Egypt 80 is the band of one of Nigeria’s most famous musicians, Fela Kuti, and Seun is, of course, his son. Seun joined his father’s band before the age of ten, and has been leading it since his father’s death. Great stuff!



Edited by nick_h_nz - June 28 2022 at 03:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2022 at 04:07
Seun Kuti & Egypt 80 were an absolute highlight for me! I've also listened to Burna Boy, who wasn't quite up there. Anyway, Nigeria's official language is English, even though it is in fact multilingual, but if British people invite somebody from Nigeria, they will still probably think of them as anglophone, and it's in the Commonwealth. My point isn't that all of them sing in English, but rather that they don't look in many places when it comes to invitations. Of course Saperlipopette has pointed out that at least one artist from a non-anglophone Asian country was there, but that's for sure not a lot. I have little doubt that Ukraine was represented in order to make a political point (their music of course still being potentially fine), otherwise I do think some ignorance shows up there on behalf of the organisers. If I remember it correctly, it wasn't really different in the past with the odd exception maybe.

Oh, and Sigrid (Norway) was there. But still...



Edited by Lewian - June 28 2022 at 04:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mila-13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2022 at 14:47

@ Lewian

I've never been a fan of big, long-running festivals but out of curiosity, now and agian I still have a look at the line-ups of a few of them. Depending on the attitude of the organisers, there are sometimes smaller stages where you can discover great new talents. Montreux is one of these positive examples. They even have their own foundation for the promotion of young talents, which the legendary festival founder Claude Nobs brought into being. There is also some promo of young talents in Glastonbury, f.e. the BBC Introducing Stage, John Peel but it is no longer what it used to be imo. Besides this one is limited to British artists, I think. I had a look at their lineup and I had to realize that most of those artists are already well-known. I read that there was a Emerging Talent Competition supported by PRS for Music, a British music copyright collective. I need to take a closer look.

As for Africa, the influence of contemporary African music culture on Western pop music has been growing steadily in recent years. More and more African artists are featured in the Western music charts and festivals. This can also be seen in Glastonbury, to some extent. Besides old familiar names such as Seun Kuti, Angélique Kidjo and Ziggy Marley this year we also had Nigerian superstar Burna Boy, neo soul/r&b newcomer Tems, Zambia-born Australia-based female rapper Sampa the Great, young Jamaican female rapper Koffee plus Les Amazones d'Afrique, an all female world music supergroup consisting of renowned singers from various African countries. I'm not counting the African diaspora here, though because those artists are often used as sort of an excuse by the organisers of such festivals to polish up their image in terms of internationality.

Except for the Ukrainian artists who were invited for obvious reasons, I have hardly seen any other European artists from the non-English-speaking world in the 2022 Glastonbury lineup. Only a few average Scandinavian indie pop acts such as Sigrid and Girl In Red from Norway and First Aid Kit and Little Dragon from Sweden who are all performing in English. What a shame! . . Belgian superstar Stromae would have been a worthy addition but I guess he's too busy now that his long-awaited new album has been released. Recently he was invited to several American late night shows.- Italian glam rockers, Maneskin are currently in high demand as well.



Edited by Mila-13 - June 28 2022 at 16:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Syzygy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2022 at 15:36
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

I really enjoyed Skunk Anansie, and I recommend Nubya Garcia to anyone who likes fusion; it's a contemporary take on fusion with exotic North West London flavas, but the musicianship is excellent and the grooves are infectious.

I love Nubya Garcia, so will definitely eventually work my way to her. I’m watching Bonobo at the moment, as I was interested to see how a lovely performance would look and sound.

Bonobo is essentially the stage name for Simon Green, who is an electronic musician who began in the trip hop and broken beat scene. I came to him by way of a recommendation from someone who knew I love Mark de Clive-Lowe, who was one of the pioneers of broken beat. Like Mark de Clive Lowe, that mix of jazz, electronic, funk and percussion heavy “world” music remains part of Bonobo’s sound, but utilities a lot more acoustic instrumentation, and he performs live with a full band. Like Mark de Clive Lowe, Bonobo is often now lumped in with the nu-)azz scene, which makes sense as broken beat is one of the scenes that gave rise to the nu-jazz scene.

Watching it is very much like watching a Mark de Clive-Lowe show, with Bonobo leading things from behind his synths and samplers, and so much going on across the stage to recreate his sounds. While much of the sound is coming from Bonobo, it is augmented beautifully by the live drums and brass section, etc. It’s a far more interesting and enjoyable set to watch than I expected.

[EDIT] (to add a Bandcamp link)



As I enjoyed the Bonobo set, I thought I’d give Caribou a go. Again an electronic solo artist who chooses to utilise a full band for his live performances, but this time not from a broken beat background. And, honestly, it is nowhere near as enjoyable, and Dan Snaith really doesn’t use the live musicians to his advantage in anywhere near the way Bonobo (and Mark de Clive Lowe) do. But I’m not sure if I didn’t enjoy it so much, because it’s further from my comfort zone. There were certainly some numbers I enjoyed far more than others. I guess I enjoyed it enough to keep listening, as I did listen to the whole set, but I’m not sure when or if I’ll be returning to Caribou to further explore his music. 🤔



Bonobo is definitely on my radar - one of those artists that keep cropping up in interesting contexts, but I haven't yet explored properly. I will try to find the Glastonbury set on iPlayer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2022 at 16:05
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Oh, and Sigrid (Norway) was there. But still...
Girl in Red is also from Norway and also sings in english (obviously). I wish more artists chose to sing in their native language. But all scandinavian etc. popartists know that they would never have been invited to Glastonbury (among other things), if they did. Not a chance. Outside of the mainstream, it's less of an issue I think. And I feel that aspect of music is moving in the right direction. (young) People in the anglosphere and in general, are much more open to music from all over the world today, than they were just a couple of decades ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2022 at 00:45
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Seun Kuti & Egypt 80 were an absolute highlight for me! I've also listened to Burna Boy, who wasn't quite up there. Anyway, Nigeria's official language is English, even though it is in fact multilingual, but if British people invite somebody from Nigeria, they will still probably think of them as anglophone, and it's in the Commonwealth. My point isn't that all of them sing in English, but rather that they don't look in many places when it comes to invitations. Of course Saperlipopette has pointed out that at least one artist from a non-anglophone Asian country was there, but that's for sure not a lot. I have little doubt that Ukraine was represented in order to make a political point (their music of course still being potentially fine), otherwise I do think some ignorance shows up there on behalf of the organisers. If I remember it correctly, it wasn't really different in the past with the odd exception maybe.

Oh, and Sigrid (Norway) was there. But still...

I will be honest - I really don’t understand your concern/criticism. If Glastonbury were a world music festival, you would certainly have a point, but if anything Glasto is the exact opposite. It is the most English of UK music festivals, and almost a celebration of Englishness. You are more likely to see people moan about a headline act not being English, than to hear them moan there is not enough diversity. You are more likely to see people moan that someone is not performing in English, than wish to see more of that.

And I keep saying English, rather than British, because England seems to like to think Britain is theirs (much to the annoyance and frustration and anger of the the other British nations), and this sense of almost ownership is sort of asserted over the Commonwealth, too. So it comes as no surprise to me that if international acts are invited, they are either from Commonwealth countries, or they perform solely in English. Glasto is not WOMAD. It’s almost the opposite.

Of course, many who actually attend don’t share these sort of nationalist and xenophobic views, but as a UK festival, Glastonbury is surprisingly conservative. There is some diversity and inclusivity, but it is not what Glastonbury is particularly known for.

(Also, it is ridiculous to me, to call a country anglophone just because English is a national language. There will be plenty of Nigerians who speak no English at all, and the most common form of English spoken in Nigeria is a pidgin dialect that would be near incomprehensible to most “proper” English speakers. English is a national language of Canada, but there are plenty of people in Quebec who speak only French, and know no English at all. Māori is a national language of New Zealand, and while most Kiwis would know a smattering of words, that certainly doesn’t mean they know or understand the language.)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2022 at 03:20
^ Indeed, Glasto is not WOMAD.  I have been to the latter twice in the 90s and thoroughly enjoyed it but I have always been put off by Glastonbury's earnestness and that it attracts the tourists (sorry).  I wished I had gone to the 79/early 80s versions but lost interest after that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2022 at 04:22
@nick: Mostly what I wrote was an observation , except this: "otherwise I do think some ignorance shows up there on behalf of the organisers", and what you write doesn't exactly seem to disagree with this.
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