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Peter Hammill, the first true punk?

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Logan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2021 at 14:53
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I've heard of Los Saicos from Peru described as the first punk band, though I'd sooner describe it as a garage band (and proto-punk perhaps).  The singer became a working physicist, unlike many in punk. Interesting and very enjoyable to me 1964-65 music.

Hmmm...this single was actually released prior to Los Saicos (they did not sign a recording contract until early 1965), The Kinks from August, 1964 (in the UK, in the U.S. September, 1964)....

Yeah,  The Kinks first album came out in 1964.  It does have a  similar raw rock 'n roll garage rock sound to Los Saicos and may have been an influence for all I know.  

I just saw this wikipedia timeline of Punk Rock:


They start with "Louie Louie" by Richard Berry

From 1964, specific songs the mention are:
From 1965 they mention:

Had I been asked who is the first true punk when I was a kid  (and that's long before I was aware of the no true Scotsman fallacy ;), I would have said Iggy Pop.



Edited by Logan - June 19 2021 at 14:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2021 at 00:51
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I've heard of Los Saicos from Peru described as the first punk band, though I'd sooner describe it as a garage band (and proto-punk perhaps).  The singer became a working physicist, unlike many in punk. Interesting and very enjoyable to me 1964-65 music.

Hmmm...this single was actually released prior to Los Saicos (they did not sign a recording contract until early 1965), The Kinks from August, 1964 (in the UK, in the U.S. September, 1964)....

Yeah,  The Kinks first album came out in 1964.  It does have a  similar raw rock 'n roll garage rock sound to Los Saicos and may have been an influence for all I know.  

I just saw this wikipedia timeline of Punk Rock:


They start with "Louie Louie" by Richard Berry

From 1964, specific songs the mention are:
From 1965 they mention:

Had I been asked who is the first true punk when I was a kid  (and that's long before I was aware of the no true Scotsman fallacy ;), I would have said Iggy Pop.



It's similar to the eternal debate about which was the first true rock & roll record.  Musical styles and genres evolve - they don't suddenly appear overnight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2021 at 08:09
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:


Wink

Hi,

Ohhhh please!

White Punks on Dope ... and it says it all about many of the punk groups doesn't it?

That first album is magnificent and it is sad and a shame that they could not continue the whole thing! They fizzled, unfortunately.

As for the OP, the only thing that PH shows that could be interesting to some punk folks is that in the early solo albums, he screamed, cried, spoke and slaughtered lyrics in a style that might have given punk singers a good idea of what they could do that most didn't. Up until that time "singing" (as in note ... !!!) was very important, and all of a sudden, a lot of lyrics were standing out and creating a voice that was doing things differently, and this became something that a lot of folks do not like in PH ... his words DRIVE the music to help make them more important, whereas most bands just keep on with the same drum beat and bass and not creating special moments for the lyrics, and for me this is the difference between an average band, and a great band ... the great band knows how to add/subtract moments from their players to help augment the lyrical content ... the average bands, ignore the lyrics and the high school drummer continues on the same beat and volume and snare drum, like nothing happened!

True punk or not is ... a strange thought. Even before the googoodoll days of the start of Iggy, there were bands in LA and SF doing a lot of screaming and trying to get attention, even so far as a bunch of the bands in LA filed a lawsuit in LA that they won, to be able to get more air time. They still only got an hour or two at 3AM in the Okefanokee Swamp ... but what the heck! The idea was that most radio station owners were afraid of what the folks that paid all of their checks would think and react by not buying any more advertising ... and in those days, according to our local station in Santa Barbara, it was all about the LOCAL business and support as compared to 10 years later when these stations were owned by mega corporations and the Army/Navy, Pepsi/Coke and General Food commercials as well as a few others took over the whole thing and the local market pretty much got dumped as they could not afford the price anymore ... same thing with pro sports in small towns ... the station is already paying for a million or two and the chances of them getting 10% of that from the local business? NONE.

I believe there has always been some kind of punk in all music, and I would not be surprised to find it in black music, where it would have been quite deserved considering how the music business handled things and avoided so many of them.


Edited by moshkito - June 20 2021 at 08:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2021 at 08:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2021 at 08:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2021 at 08:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2021 at 09:00
Hi,

I was more thinking of some things like THE LAST POETS, of which one piece is in the film PERFORMANCE and it is magnificent, and hard to believe that this had not been around before ... I think it was all along. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqlv-KiJDOU

While not exactly punk, the lyrics are off the roof ... intense and right up front! Very much a punk tradition. I don't even think that a lot of black folks in the rap scene even realize where this came from although there is a feeling I have that a lot of this actually came from Africa, a place where a lot of music is still ignored, or is totally destroyed by senseless wars and political upheaval. It's a wonder that it even survived in some form or another.

Makes a lot of rap seem very silly and just a drum sound!


Edited by moshkito - June 21 2021 at 09:03
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