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A Crimson Mellotron View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 18 2020 at 05:01
Far away from prog but I am pretty curious what proggers think of Marilyn Manson's music and imagery?
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Have never seen him live but I did read his book. He is a mess and a copycat. Alice Cooper was one of his idols. He borrowed the makeup and the over the top stage antics from him. On tour with Alice, Alice told him to tone down the anti-religious images or he would be axed. He did for the remainder of that tour. His cutting onstage, not original, gave him plenty of groupies who engaged in that behavior. His music is not for me.

What do you think of Marilyn?
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While not a fan, for he was a favorite of my brother - and we tend not to follow the same artists in my family - I've been exposed to his music and his imagery for some time: I think my brothers and I discovered Marilyn Manson by his cover of Eurythmics' "Sweet Dreams".
For us, it looked, somehow, like making part of the zeitgeist of the 90's: the videos of Nine Inch Nails or Nirvana's "Heart Shaped Box" or even The Cure's "Lullaby" had some similarities with his tortured, anguishing videos.
Then, his fascist-like symbolism were more disturbing, until you began to hear about the "shenanigans" of the Stooges, David Bowie or the punk bands of '77 (not to talk about Laibach): the whole concept of rock stars being idolized just like dictators or gurus may have been...
All this could appear as interesting, provocative and exciting at this period, but when one knows the history of rock music, it makes him appear just like a guy taking ideas from Bowie, Alice Cooper, the industrial music scene (and maybe the Residents), mixing the whole stuff into a coherent musical style and presenting the result in a well conceived package.
It worked.
The 90's needed someone like him.
And yet, I still feel like we have been owned: he's smart, clever, well articulated... But did he create some really original concept? I don't think so.

Anyway, if talking about his music (and we're on this forum to talk about music), I may enjoy some of his stuff from time to time, but I have a preference for Mecanical Animal (1998), which provided a richer variety of influences than the two first albums.
Strangely, I prefer his first juvenile, immature album to the "classic" Antichrist Superstar: apart from "Beautiful People", I can't remember one song from this album!
Then, came Holyweird, which was a darker, moodier and slower album: not really ravishing (it lacked the earworms of his 90's material), but, at least, it was... something else.
But, honestly, once I heard and saw a few snipets from The Golden Age of Grotesque, I completely lost interest for him: it was just re-heating of his previous concepts, "Be Obscene" wasn't a clever joke, etc...
Furthermore, if talking about 90's metal, just like I told, he wasn't a favourite of mine: Prong, Fear Factory, Godflesh... were appealing to me.
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Have never seen him live but I did read his book. He is a mess and a copycat. Alice Cooper was one of his idols. He borrowed the makeup and the over the top stage antics from him. On tour with Alice, Alice told him to tone down the anti-religious images or he would be axed. He did for the remainder of that tour. His cutting onstage, not original, gave him plenty of groupies who engaged in that behavior. His music is not for me.

What do you think of Marilyn?

Well, as an entertainer, Marilyn has to be top tier or thereabouts. What he's doing might not be his own invention but he is putting a lot of energy into his 'performances', and also believes firmly in his... stuff.
Musically, I get that he's not everyone's cup of tea (like a lot of the 90s garbage that has somehow ventured in the mainstream, not that this refers necessarily to him) but I like some of his material, some I find not interesting. For example, the 'Mechanical Animals' album. Overall, it has some of his best songs while thematically it might not be that strong. Another one I like is 'The Golden Age of Grotesque', which is too often neglected and it seems to offend people. I find it a lot of fun! His latest albums are definitely more mature, and showcase some kind of a romantic, or emotive side of him.
And something that many people never got to know is, as the other guy had commented, how articulated and well-spoken that guy is. I have watched a good bunch of his interviews, and MM is a very intelligent artist. He likes to provoke and make people think... That seems to be what he is always talking about, at least.
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Originally posted by CPicard CPicard wrote:

While not a fan, for he was a favorite of my brother - and we tend not to follow the same artists in my family - I've been exposed to his music and his imagery for some time: I think my brothers and I discovered Marilyn Manson by his cover of Eurythmics' "Sweet Dreams".
For us, it looked, somehow, like making part of the zeitgeist of the 90's: the videos of Nine Inch Nails or Nirvana's "Heart Shaped Box" or even The Cure's "Lullaby" had some similarities with his tortured, anguishing videos.
Then, his fascist-like symbolism were more disturbing, until you began to hear about the "shenanigans" of the Stooges, David Bowie or the punk bands of '77 (not to talk about Laibach): the whole concept of rock stars being idolized just like dictators or gurus may have been...
All this could appear as interesting, provocative and exciting at this period, but when one knows the history of rock music, it makes him appear just like a guy taking ideas from Bowie, Alice Cooper, the industrial music scene (and maybe the Residents), mixing the whole stuff into a coherent musical style and presenting the result in a well conceived package.
It worked.
The 90's needed someone like him.
And yet, I still feel like we have been owned: he's smart, clever, well articulated... But did he create some really original concept? I don't think so.

Anyway, if talking about his music (and we're on this forum to talk about music), I may enjoy some of his stuff from time to time, but I have a preference for Mecanical Animal (1998), which provided a richer variety of influences than the two first albums.
Strangely, I prefer his first juvenile, immature album to the "classic" Antichrist Superstar: apart from "Beautiful People", I can't remember one song from this album!
Then, came Holyweird, which was a darker, moodier and slower album: not really ravishing (it lacked the earworms of his 90's material), but, at least, it was... something else.
But, honestly, once I heard and saw a few snipets from The Golden Age of Grotesque, I completely lost interest for him: it was just re-heating of his previous concepts, "Be Obscene" wasn't a clever joke, etc...
Furthermore, if talking about 90's metal, just like I told, he wasn't a favourite of mine: Prong, Fear Factory, Godflesh... were appealing to me.



Interesting observations. I agree with most of what you've written.
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Ironically i just reviewed his latest album WE ARE CHAOS on MMA after hearing it was a return to form. It was OK but it's obviously he's a has been.

I love the first three albums Portrait Of An American Family, Antichrist Super Star and Mechanical Animals. The EP Smells Like Children had some good stuff as well especially the creepy good cover of Sweet Dreams from the Eurythmics.

Imagewise Manson basically upgraded the Alice Cooper shtick. Never been a favorite artist but find the first three albums hold up pretty well. After that he just retreaded and proved he didn't have any staying power. Should've called it quits after Holy Wood but instead released a series of underwhelming crap.

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I find MM to be a weak and limited vocalist. Surprising for a lead vocalist front man.
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I find MM to be a weak and limited vocalist. Surprising for a lead vocalist front man.


True dat but he was effective in exuding a certain image and his vocals were quite effective in a limited spectrum which worked well on the first three albums but he was a one-trick pony and didn't have the mojo to move on properly.

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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I find MM to be a weak and limited vocalist. Surprising for a lead vocalist front man.


True dat but he was effective in exuding a certain image and his vocals were quite effective in a limited spectrum which worked well on the first three albums but he was a one-trick pony and didn't have the mojo to move on properly.

And comparing him to his much beloved Bowie, what you say seems as true as it gets.
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Funny, I'd only heard OF him but had never heard his music until a buddy recently loaned me an LP copy of what I guess is his latest album......my friend told me the sound on the album I heard was supposed to echo Bowie, the Stooges and even some proggy bits but I heard none of that, just rehashed sounds and stories.  I can't say the album was awful, just not very interesting, which I thought would at the very least be the case.  

One listen to two sides of his latest - can't say I know any more.....just funny that MMs name would pop up just after hearing his music for the first time.
I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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Originally posted by Intruder Intruder wrote:

Funny, I'd only heard OF him but had never heard his music until a buddy recently loaned me an LP copy of what I guess is his latest album......my friend told me the sound on the album I heard was supposed to echo Bowie, the Stooges and even some proggy bits but I heard none of that, just rehashed sounds and stories.  I can't say the album was awful, just not very interesting, which I thought would at the very least be the case.  

One listen to two sides of his latest - can't say I know any more.....just funny that MMs name would pop up just after hearing his music for the first time.

He lied about the proggy bits just to make you listen to the record. LOL
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I don't think about Marylin Manson... 
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