Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > General Music Discussions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - MP3s Gone - A Lament
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

MP3s Gone - A Lament

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Message
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2020 at 08:27
Originally posted by beholdtheman beholdtheman wrote:


...
I understand and agree with a lot of what you've said in this conversation. In general, companies are becoming more and more restrictive about allowing free copies of their music to be available. And this is valid, because they and the bands they represent, really deserve some return on their investment. 
...

For ME, this qualifies as MISINFORMATION. The idea is to freeze up as much ability as possible for any new bands, so to allow more chances for the band that "you" (supposedly) represent.

These days, there is but a handful of bands that have a record company represent them ... almost all of these bands simply have a DISTRIBUTING DEAL with the band for the records and cd's ... and even then, if a record company is "supporting" a band, it's a joke ... here have a beer and a toke!

The days of a record company taking advantage of the atmosphere and pushing their products, including one musician passing around crabs (no kidding!) ... are long gone ... and no one is going to spend one single dime on a band that does not have a strong business model ... like IRS Schedule C that shows sales, and they are backed up with sales slips and accounting, something that 9 out of 10 bands cheat on big time ... the numbers they show is not always representative of ... gee you just bought a new soandso for $6K? With what money? You are showing revenue at $21K for the year ... with various expenses, it all totaled something like 2K profit, and you paid your taxes on that so the IRS won't come to your door much ... it's if you do not pay taxes and you spent frivolously, that they will be knocking!

This is important ... you don't realize that folks like SW had sold cassettes off his garage of a band that did not exist YET ... Porcupine Tree! And soon enough he had several guys in hats, cane and briefcase at his door ... offering him meringue pie, hamburgers and a car ... and a new studio (which he would have to pay to use!!!) ... to which he said no thanks ... but he took the distribution deals ... he would announce when something is done, and they would come and get X number of copies ... for distribution ... 

Originally posted by beholdtheman beholdtheman wrote:

 
...
The "market" is saturated with so much music, that it can become a major time and money investment to find any new music to your liking. So it really helps when a company or band will offer some free listening, to give the potential new fan a chance to hear something before a purchase.
...

I do think that things are a bit saturated too much, but they were way back then, too ... and the difference is that 50 years ago, you could not do a whole band in your bedroom in bed ... !!! You can now!

And a lot of the stuff that is being shown and mentioned as "bands" are really poor exercises in musicianship, that in my book need a little more work than just high school practices! And too many bands are "getting into PA" with it ... and I think that we will have a house full of rabbits before long and they keep on duplicating!

Somewhere along the way, a line has to be drawn, HOWEVER, I do not think that curtailing the MP3's is the right way to do this, and I wish I were a billionaire ... I would take this to the Supreme Court, because this is hurting SIGNIFICANTLY the livelihood of a lot of bands! And the Supreme Court would immediately say that the Copyrights issues need to be updated and come up to modern standards, not arcane astrophysical semantics about ... just protecting my own money! Please stop supporting the CORPORATE standard and see this for what it is ... C'mon ... only the big names and companies have the lawyers to go after this and that and this and that to stop MP3's ... these folks belong in jail for embezzlement! And their corporate tax returns ... how about maybe 1 or 2 out of 4 sales listed?

Originally posted by beholdtheman beholdtheman wrote:

 
...
And you also spoke of what it was like to find new music in the 60s and 70s. The most common ways of doing that were radio, magazine or sometimes word of mouth. 
...

Incorrect. If you list all the bands from 1969, 1970 all the way to 1972 and 1973 before one certain show (not speaking of it anymore!) you will find that in those days, almost NONE of them had radio exposure, Melody Maker had a 4 letter article on King Crimson. 

Again, mostly we picked up a lot of imports and found things along the way ... we saw a cover from Roy Harper ... that's coming home! We saw a cover for Kevin Ayers ... that's coming home! We saw a cover for Edgar Broughton Band (specially the satire on the original Beatles cover!!!!) and ... that's coming home.

Today ... no one even bothers ... 3 bars on the tube or somewhere else and it goes home ... the problem being that no one listens to the rest of the album and the material ... so a lot of fans these days, only KNOW SONGS .... and some of them have no idea what the rest of the band sounds like! You know who these folks are since they only heard Yes, JT and PF and would never consider le Orme, Banco or PFM ... because they sounded like PF or ELP (... you got to be _uckin_ me!)

Originally posted by beholdtheman beholdtheman wrote:

 
...
were reading about Kiss, Queen and Bad Company. At that time, these were all new bands no one knew about. I can recall reading about Kiss' first album sometime before it's actual release in 1974. 
...

In Southern California, along with Who, Kinks, Elton, etc, etc, were already the HIT BANDS for the FM band on your radio .... their "hits" are now considered "classic" and on rotation on the tape stations!

We're talking new music ... because these bands had EXPOSURE that others did not!

There is a major difference!

Originally posted by beholdtheman beholdtheman wrote:

 
...
...radio station KOMA broadcasting from Oklahoma City. Once a week, I think on Friday nights, there was a music program called "Beaker Street". And the host would play all different types of new rock music.
...

There is a reason why RW called this ... "radio waste" ... along with Jim Ladd. However they were not the only ones. There were many others, and the criminal death of KMET was even worse ... and a station that apparently) made a lot of money, but the owners did not like the politics!

I'm mostly familiar with Southern California, and in my book there are a couple of people that should write all this crap down ... one of them had it on a blog on the Internet, and he has systematically taken it down ... sad, because it had great stories about a FM station that made it big, and then sold out to the devil for cash, and a few years later, it was no longer the best and the most important station on the dial. Jim Ladd, should have a lot of stuff to say, but he has been very quiet about it all, which makes me think that there was a parting agreement that offered lots of money for him not to say anything about it! It's over and times change, and tomorrow is a different day ... the other would be Archie Patterson of Eurock fame, who was related to one of the first importers of stuff in the very early 70's in Southern California ... but his book on his periodical is HUGE and it tells a lot of stories from the musicians themselves ... but of course, this is not valuable or important because those bands did not have "hits" ... and the material and stuff in there, is the best, insane, crazy and over the top ... even if it is just to see how SAVAGELY, the band Savage Rose was handled over the years by many record companies that wanted them to do "hits" ... not their own stuff! But in the middle of it, you get the philosophy behind Richard Pinhas ... and I still am trying to match it up to the HELDON music!

The mp3's is not the problem ... the record companies are! Please see that and help the artist ... not the corporate fudgers!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
micky View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2020 at 08:33
*looks at my mug of coffee'

nope.. not doing it...
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2020 at 08:37
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

*looks at my mug of coffee'

nope.. not doing it...

... Smile ... must be a Space Pirate Radio mug ... Big smile

I feel like folks think that all I write is on them drugs and reefer ... I'm a veteran ... I quit when Reagan said (think it was him!) ... something like "let them smoke dope and i will win all the elections" ... fast forward and it is still happening today ... !!! AND NO ONE GETS IT!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
micky View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2020 at 08:43
yeah but we still love you Pedro.HeartBeer You are one of the few remaining reminders of what this forum used to be...
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Back to Top
Grumpyprogfan View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 09 2019
Location: Kansas City
Status: Offline
Points: 12485
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2020 at 10:26
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

yeah but we still love you Pedro.HeartBeer You are one of the few remaining reminders of what this forum used to be...
So was it better or worse? Did all the interesting people leave because of the constant Genesis/KC/Yes polls? Were the topics more interesting? If it is in your opinion worse, how can it be improved?

I have tried many times to engage members in conversations on current/newer/lesser known bands. Not many replies and some of the replies are negative or even hostile. If people like you they reply. If your new or different you get ignored. I find it very frustrating. Sometimes, to me, this website feels cliquey and not everyone is welcome.
Back to Top
chopper View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20035
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2020 at 11:06
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

*looks at my mug of coffee'

nope.. not doing it...


LOL
I had pretty much the same thought.
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2020 at 19:54
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

yeah but we still love you Pedro.HeartBeer You are one of the few remaining reminders of what this forum used to be...
So was it better or worse? Did all the interesting people leave because of the constant Genesis/KC/Yes polls? Were the topics more interesting? If it is in your opinion worse, how can it be improved?

I have tried many times to engage members in conversations on current/newer/lesser known bands. Not many replies and some of the replies are negative or even hostile. If people like you they reply. If your new or different you get ignored. I find it very frustrating. Sometimes, to me, this website feels cliquey and not everyone is welcome.

Hi,

I would have gladly added to the conversation if I was better informed and aware of each and every band ... however, I am not a fan of "hits" and the dependency on "public approval" for a band, to get consistently good marks and approval ratings ... and sometimes, this is the saddest part of it all ... a small country in Africa, has 4 progressive bands ... and you know how many comments are listed here? NONE ... because they can't be progressive and designated so by folks that WILL NOT listen to anything but what they are told is the best band ... an honest listener would probably say ... there are a lot of better bands around ... but ... but ... where are the comments? heck, if no one has heard it, it must be crap!

There is little to no chance for those who were born in the ghetto and will never be able to get out in their life ... and I've seen some of the worst in Sao Paolo and Rio de Janeiro ... and it makes me cry ... each and every time ... and I feel the same about a lot of music that is consistently ignored and some folks here think I'm just being a pain because I am not kissing their skirts and pants with worthless comments!

It's not about the skirts or pants ... it's about the MUSIC ... plain and simple!


Edited by moshkito - August 02 2020 at 19:56
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
micky View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2020 at 21:11
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

yeah but we still love you Pedro.HeartBeer You are one of the few remaining reminders of what this forum used to be...
 

So was it better or worse? Did all the interesting people leave because of the constant Genesis/KC/Yes polls? Were the topics more interesting? If it is in your opinion worse, how can it be improved?

I have tried many times to engage members in conversations on current/newer/lesser known bands. Not many replies and some of the replies are negative or even hostile. If people like you they reply. If your new or different you get ignored. I find it very frustrating. Sometimes, to me, this website feels cliquey and not everyone is welcome.

hard post to respond to... but I'll try..

better for sure.. but it wasn't just the topics.. that isn't what really made the site great.. or not.. it is the people. People make forums great (or not) not the topics... for boring people make great topics boring and fun people make boring topics.. FUN!!

the interesting people as I call them? What they like or don't music has nothing to do with it.. music brings you in the door here.. but many of us have very different tastes... it isn't what we like that connects us.... it is a sense of personality,character.. actual brain activity they display through their posts that makes people interesting or not. Pedro for example has that in spades. 

We used to have a lot of people like that who brought something to the forum.. not their love of prog.. but parts of themselves.  Many friendships .. even marriages haha.. have been formed via meeting on this site.. and tastes in music had little to do with it. It only brought people together..  

as far as you personally.. ehhh..  you have tastes that run contrary to many on the site. Join the club.. I've been living there for years. That isn't a clique.. it is just different tastes.  My tastes for example run contrary to many on this site.. but I've never felt not welcome or an outsider. I think the key is you just find your niche on the forum and just let yourself flow ..express yourself through your posts.  Who cares about the 95% that may not dig you or find what you like interesting....you live for the 5% that might and the friendships that might strike up. 

my two cents for what is worth...

The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Back to Top
beholdtheman View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: February 22 2010
Location: Seattle
Status: Offline
Points: 31
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote beholdtheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2020 at 07:32

Hey Will

I also have many more music interests, than just prog. There are so many different music subjects, and aspects, I want to talk about. That I'm having the sensation of wanting to have multiple conversations all at one time. It reminds me of an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation. In which Data was sitting in a room listening to music. And he wasn't just listening to one thing, he was listening to multiple tunes all at the same time. And to an outside listener, it just sounded like a mass of noise. But being Data, because of his processing ability, he could appreciate each separate piece of music. Even though he was listening to multiple pieces of music, all at the same time.

I also have some interest in different types of jazz music. But one of the problems that I have with some jazz, is that it is so generic sounding. The tunes are just in a generic jazz style, without having any distinctive quality about them. No distinctive melody, harmony or rhythm that clearly identifies it as a specific tune. I've been a musician for most of my life. And one of the things that I expect in a tune, is that it be clearly identifiable. A really clear example for me, would be hearing the Beatles "Penny Lane". That tune is almost instantly recognizable. And within the first seconds of hearing it, you immediately know what you're hearing. You couldn't mistake it for something else. And there is some jazz like that, which I prefer over the common generic-sounding jazz. As for the jazz musicians that you mentioned, I'm familiar with their names. But I'm not really familiar with any of their music.

Throughout my life, I've gone through many different phases of listening to different types of music. And I'm almost constantly evolving through some musical phase or other. One of the more interesting phases that I went through, was with a Native American flute player, R.Carlos Nakai. At that time I was in the habit of going to a local record store called Tower Records. They were franchised, so you may have had one there, in Kansas City, too. And they always had listening stations, where you could listen to new music. And I got the chance to listen to Nakai's latest release called "Ancestral Voices". This started a long phase of listening to and buying his music. And he usually worked with an acoustic guitar player, which added a lot of ethereal beauty to this music. The guitarist was William Eaton. William taught at some university, and was a professional guitar builder. He made and played some of the most beautiful stringed instruments I've ever seen. I encourage you to do a search with his name, because I think you'll really appreciate the beauty of the instruments he made. After some time I came to a decision about the type of flute Nakai played; I wanted one of my own. These aren't the metal flutes that are commonly seen in some bands, like the one Ian Anderson plays. These are hand made from wood by a person that's trained in building them in the Native American style. I did some research and found contact information for the person that made these flutes for Nakai. His name was Ken Light. So I contacted Ken and picked out the flute I wanted. And a few months later, the flute arrived. It's a really beautiful instrument. Ken is the type of person, that goes over all the details of the instrument. And makes sure that he's creating a high-quality instrument. Because this is how he makes a living, so he wants to create a really strong reputation for himself.

Well, there are many other things that I could talk about. But I'll end off here. And I'm going to suggest something. I've made a note of the frustration that you have, in trying to discuss the different types of music and bands. And this conversation we're having could go on for quite a while. I'm willing to continue doing this discussion with you, and see where it goes. And I'm going to suggest that we take this discussion to our own personal email, if you like. Then we can pursue this in a more casual environment and we could exchange MP3s every once in a while. But the choice is yours. My email is [email protected]. Talk with you later.

Back to Top
beholdtheman View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: February 22 2010
Location: Seattle
Status: Offline
Points: 31
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beholdtheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2020 at 08:37

Hey Logan

I'm happy to finally know when Prog Archives was started. It gave me a more detailed frame of reference, in my own mind. And helped me to place that into my own personal timeline. It also helped that you provided some insight about why the MP3s were removed.

I also had the thought, that you could allow MP3s from the bands that gave permission. Because that would also be beneficial to them. But I understand how much time it might take, to manage that situation. And if there's only a few people managing the site, then it could become too much to manage.

As you did, I also spent a long time listening to the MP3s. Again as you did, I also discovered a lot of new music and came to more fully understand the different genres. I consider that to be some valuable and enlightening personal progress. Because it added to my own personal depth as a musician. I've heard all the bands that you listed and like many of them. My picks, from the list that you made are.....

Art Zoyd, Picchio Dal Pozzo, Area, Ange

I have Ange's..........Guet-Apens and the following CDs by Art Zoyd

Art Zoyd's...............Symphonie Pour Le Jour Ou Bruleront Les Cites

Art Zoyd's...............Musique Pour L'Odyssee

Art Zoyd's...............Generation Sans Futur

Of all this, I enjoy Ange's music the most.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.575 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.