A belated update to a long closed topic

proghaven wrote: The topic: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=111295 The belated update: https://pillory1.bandcamp.com/releases Of course if it interests anyone. If no, then no.

Whatever the history, that sounds cohesive enough to me to expect it not to be a patchwork of artists (I expect a mind behind the music, sounds mostly like a solo project to me, with some help perhaps). That said, I wouldn't find the music convincing for addition to PA even if what info we have is accurate and can be verified.

Progressive tends to mean forward-thinking in my terms, but I mean that it doesn't strike me as convincingly Prog-enough to warrant inclusion based on that, and I wouldn't expect it to be added to any of the categories at this site.

Well, after the Stratovarius fiasco here a while back now I learned to just shaddup and let others get on with talking. Luckily I can categorize my own large collection of music any way I please.   

proghaven wrote: Nice. I never met a team of laymans like here on PA before. First, a ‘special collaborator’ and ‘symphonic prog specialist’ (sic!) posts a bunch of his personal conspiracist fantasies based on nothing (‘pieces by various artists’, ‘school project on your synth’ and other nonsense). And now, a forum moderator says it’s not ‘convincingly Prog-enough’ to be expected to be added to ANY (!!!) of the categories. (Really? Even ‘prog-related’ won’t be OK?). At the same time, there are dozens of outspokenly amateurish prog (rather proggy…) bands and solo artists painlessly added to the PA base, and (on the other hand) dozens of obviously non-progressive artists added to the ‘compromise’ categories like ‘prog-related’, ‘eclectic prog’ etc, without hesitation. As far as I can guess, this all caused no objection from the PA administration. But if so, then you are not a team of ‘professionals’ or ‘specialists’ but obvious dilettantes. ‘This is not Prog-enough’? And you tell this to me?! You may be sure, during 40 years of listening to THOUSANDS of albums I learnt very well what is and what isn’t prog. Of course you might dislike the music, or you might dislike my post in the ‘suggest new bands and artists’ section, it’s up to you. But you say the music we discuss is not prog. This statement is at least irresponsible and dishonest. I thought the PA team are music lovers, but you rather remind me Soviet bureaucrats from 1970s-1980s. Though let it be on your watch, my purpose was not to bring up a closed question again but first of all to share a link to the music I find worth to listen. The bureaucrats have expressed their opinion and position, let’s thank them. Now, maybe the community members would like to listen to the music? To my knowledge, listening is free on Bandcamp (right?).

Nicolas, I might agree that we are laypeople, as we are not professionals at this site. This is voluntary, and we receive no remuneration for what we do here. Most of us are music enthusiasts rather than being music professionals (we have day jobs, Ivan as a lawyer, another admin as a doctor, me as a boring copy-editor working for a uni). Music is not as much of a passion as it used to be for me, but I stay on because I enjoy interacting with the community and helping out where I can, although obviously such attempts are not always appreciated. I have also listened to thousands of albums, but I would never claim to be a music expert (I also was in youth orchestra, but that would hardly count to my credit).

I'm saying that I didn't find it sufficiently Prog for PA inclusion, but I have no say other than in Prog Related and Proto-Prog additions now. I used to be on the Eclectic team, but left that team long ago. Even if I find it musically prog related (there's a huge amount of music in my collection that I put in that camp), being included in Prog Related requires more than having Prog, or Proggy, music qualities. A Special Collaborator would have to make a case to us, we would like general agreement from PA members that this should be in PA, and it should be demonstrated that this band was not only influenced by Prog, but that it was on influence on other Prog and/or that musicians in the band have been significant members of other bands included in Prog categories at this site. Being related is not just about the music. Now I know nothing about the musician/ musicians, nor do I have much knowledge of the Russian Prog scene, but if a Special Collaborator made a case to us then I would seriously consider the case. The arguments and evidence that show Prog relations beyond just how the music sounds are significant. Lots of music that is Prog Related will not be added to Prog Related, as we don't want that to be very robust or comprehensive category, and the idea has been to limit it. We don't add bands to Prog Related without hesitation, and I and my team members were very thorough/ careful when adding bands to Eclectic Prog.

There are questionable acts in PA, and I can understand those who worry about a lack of consistency, but much of that comes from when anyone could add bands in the early days, and we had a do not remove this band if anyone has reviewed it policy. Only the site owner can remove bands, but very few have been removed from PA.

By the way, I am a community member first here, and only consider my Admin tag when I need to (well, I guess it does force me to make less rude jokes, as I rather enjoy writing crude humour).

Anyway, if this was not about adding this to Prog Archives, or it's progressiveness per se, then sorry for going down that road (but as this was put in Prog News, and as you referenced the old topic and this was an update, of course I linked intent to that). Perhaps I was not clear on your intent in this thread as you didn't write much here.   The only reason I posted is because you seemed upset that people weren't taking this topic seriously, and so I was lamely attempting to rectify that. I genuinely thought you would appreciate the response even if you disagreed. I would if someone took the time to listen and comment in one of my threads without being rude didn't think I was being rude), but I guess we all react differently (I try to look at things in the most charitable light generally, including intent). I wouldn't have listened to the music otherwise as while it's pleasant I don't particularly enjoy it (bit smooth, New Agey for me). That said, whether a band is considered Prog or not does not affect my enjoyment of it, and I don't think Prog is better than forms of music. Beethoven is a favourite of mine even though he's not Prog, and I prefer 60s to 70s Ennio Morricone to most everything included at this site despite him not being in the archives (I place him in the prog related sphere).

Perhaps others will enjoy it, and perhaps you'll take the time to venture into other people's topics and listen to and comment on music new to you. You might enjoy commentiong on topics in the Suggest New Bands thread and you can show of some of your Prog knowledge there (I used to do that a lot, partially because I never like to see topics go uncommented on). The bandcamp may be free, but we don't have unlimited free time. I would be interested to hear about other music that you like since this must be just one of a huge many that you care about.

By the way, I'm moving this out of Progressive Music Lounges: Prog News, Press Releases to General Music Discussions.

"Prog News
This section is for letting people know about a new or upcoming prog album, DVD, interview, press releases, etc. It should also be used for reporting news about prog artists, and other prog people. Please note that the thread should actually include the news, and not simply link to it elsewhere and please do not abuse this section by posting multiple threads on the same or similar topic."

I wouldn't call such an update significant Prog news even if this were considered Prog.


EDIT: Correction, I said that I don't a have say in all but Prog Related and Proto-Prog, but that's not accurate (call me dishonest rather than mistaken if you choose, though i would disagree, but perhaps you understand my motivations better than I do -- I never meant to mislead or be fraudulent before, and such an interpretation is uncharitable. I'm fine being corrected on erroneous statements and called out on bad arguments, that's a way one learns). We all have a say, I just don't make those decisions. I do still share my thoughts and debate without, I hope, resorting to attacks or being that condescending. If you want it added somewhere and haven't, by the way, you might try rateyourmusic if you haven't already.

Edited by Logan - June 09 2019 at 12:44

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Edited by proghaven - May 04 2024 at 14:44

proghaven wrote: Atavachron wrote: Oh boy, you really have a tin ear for things.   Logan tried, rather nicely I think, to explain the context ~ a site made from volunteers who vote as teams on whether a band should be included ~ but you couldn't get past your own moral convictions.   Websites, like institutions, are made up of people.   It's that simple.   Further, topics are moved to their correct category not out of revenge but correct placement (I used to think the same as you when I joined but quickly understood the importance of Sub-forum movement). Jeez Louise, grow up a little bit.   And BTW, it's just a friggin' prog rock music site.   No one else cares Look for a ‘boy’ in your nursery. And watch your tongue. I see that your manners and vocabulary are far from decent, but don’t bother to try to impress me with them.

Yeah you're very intimidating, aren't you --