Are all P2P sites gone and now history? |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Posted: September 24 2005 at 04:43 | ||||
That's because they're not active in Finnland yet - I never said they are. But you have laws against Filesharing in Finnland, so they can begin what they're doing in Germany anytime. BTW: If you report a crime in Germany, the legal authorities have to investigate ... they cannot refuse. I'm sure that it's similar in Finnland.
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/64181 http://www.n-tv.de/582473.html
It is real. They already filed 20,000 sues ... supplied as a database table of IP addresses. |
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cobb
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 10 2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1149 |
Posted: September 24 2005 at 07:12 | ||||
Here is some interesting reading from p2pnet for those interested.
FICTION: File sharers are depriving the music labels (not to mention the movie and software cartels) of billions of dollars in lost sales. FACT: The cartel is reporting substantial drop-offs in sales and much of this is, its owners claim, down to file sharing. It's eminently debatable whether file sharing has caused the loss of even a single sale. But the labels have cut back significantly on their output in Australia, say new figures from an Australian expert. Given that it's the case in Oz, one can assume it's also true elsewhere. There have also been a number of academic and other studies pointing up the fallacy of the cartel assertions. One of the first to suggest EMI, Universal, Warner and Sony BMG were being a little less than forthright in their 'File sharing is costing us billions in lost sales' declarations came from two respected American scholars. "According to the RIAA (2002), the number of CD’s shipped in the U.S. fell from 940 million to 800 million - or 15% - between 2000 and 2002 (though shipments continued to rise during the first two years of popular file sharing, 1999-2000)," say Felix Oberholzer of the Harvard Business School and Koleman Strumpf of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill in their The Effect of File Sharing on Record Sales: An Empirical Analysis. "The record industry has claimed this decline is due to file sharing." The
two analyzed the direct data of music downloaders over a 17-week period
in the fall of 2002, and compared that activity with actual music
purchases during that time, coming to the conclusion that spikes in
downloading had almost no discernible effect on sales. Even under the worst-case example, "it would take 5,000 downloads to reduce the sales of an album by one copy," they wrote. "After annualizing, this would imply a yearly sales loss of two million albums, which is virtually rounding error given that 803 million records were sold in 2002. Sales dropped by 139 million albums from 2000 to 2002." Nor do downloaded mp3 files replace CD buys. "While downloads occur on a vast scale, most users are likely individuals who would not have bought the album even in the absence of file sharing," stated Oberholzer and Strumpf. Their studies concentrated
on the American experience. But a more recent study by Dr Tatsuo Tanaka
of Keio University in Japan, using the now famous Winny p2p
application, says there’s, “not sufficient evidence that file sharing systems are responsible for the recent decline in CD sales”. To the contrary, p2p usage helps in the promotion of music by allowing users to experience it before purchase; and, it helps in the discovery of new music by users, says Tanaka in Does File Sharing Reduce CD Sales? "Based
on micro data of CD sales and numbers of downloads, we found that there
is very little evidence that file sharing reduced music CD sales in
Japan. We controlled simultaneous bias between sales and downloads by
instrumental variables but did not find correlation between CD sales
and numbers of downloads. Although there were large differences in the
numbers of downloads among CD titles, these differences did not affect
CD sales. "We also carried out a user survey on file sharing and CD purchases with consideration to the potential bias of respondents trying to understate their illegal copying activity. This survey also showed that file sharing had very limited influence on CD purchases." Tanaka suggests
copyright laws should be relaxed rather than tightened to allow for
more positive effects of broadband internet file sharing. Meanwhile, millions of entertainment industry dollars that should have gone into shareholder dividends are spent on 'reports' meant to counter the papers. But they can be clearly seen for what they are: fruitless attempts to discredit papers which give the lie to industry claims. FICTION: File sharers are thieves. FACT: Put at its simplest, to steal something is to remove it from its original owner without his or her permission, causing deprivation through loss. File sharing means exactly what it says. Sharing. Nothing is stolen and no one is deprived of anything. To the contrary, file sharers are exposed to music they may never have otherwise heard. Mp3s are inferior, compressed copies of original CD tracks meant primarily for portable devices. People who listen to mp3s frequently go out to buy the originals so they can be played on home stereo systems. Moreover, no money changes hands and no profits are made or lost. FICTION: Targetting people suspected of file sharing has significantly reduced the number of file sharers in the US and around the world. FACT: The lawsuits have had, and continue to have, zero impact on the file sharing communities. To the contrary, the number of people logging onto file sharing networks everywhere is steadily increasing. p2pnet has been collecting data compiled by Big Champagne, the American research company which specializes in gathering data on file sharing. In
August, 2003, in the US, on average, 2,630,960 people were
simultaneously logged onto p2p networks at any given time. Globally,
the number was approximately 3,847,565. A year later for the same months, the numbers were 4,549,801 and 6,822,312 respectively. And
for August, 2005, Big Champagne statistics show 6,871,308 people were
logged onto the networks at the same time in the US, with 9,620,261
individuals checking in around the world. FICTION: Entertainment industry lawsuits deter people from sharing files with each other online. FACT: Every day, hundreds of thousands of people around the world log on for the first time meaning the chance of any one individual becoming one of the RIAA's chosen few becomes exponentially more unlikely. In his Theory of Collective Consumer Risk, "Downloaders are generally less likely to expect a stern warning, expensive lawsuit or even criminal prosecution, the more those around them are doing the same," says Canadian marketing expert Dr Markus Giesler, also quoting p2pnet's contention that the odds of ending up as an RIAA target are akin to being struck by lightning. Or put another way, the risk tied to Internet file-sharing is almost zero despite entertainment industry claims to the contrary, says Geisler, going on: "Downloaders are generally less likely to expect a stern warning, expensive lawsuit or even criminal prosecution, the more those around them are doing the same." Slyck
is famous for its forums and its statistics. In May this year, "From
the last capture of the proportion of networks under the RIAA’s gun in
November of 2003, 150 users of FastTrack were sued, compared to 5
Blubster users," said the site’s Tom Mennecke in RIAA’s Grand Total: 10,037 - What are Your Odds?, continuing: "Since
the RIAA cannot subpoena individuals anymore, we unfortunately cannot
provide a more current proportion. However, common knowledge dictates
that FastTrack remains a priority, and on November 13 of 2003 it
represented ~96% of those being sued." But,
"If we were to eliminate 96% (proportion of FastTrack users) of the
6,523 sued in 2004, the odds of being sued changes dramatically. If we
consider only those using a non-FastTrack P2P network, the total number
of lawsuits drops to only ~261. In other words, you then have a 1 in
45,977 chance of being sued if you do not use FastTrack. Comparatively,
according to the National Safety Council, you have a better chance of
being killed in a transportation or non-transportational accident,
death from suicide, death from assault or death by legal intervention
(such as execution or being shot by a police officer.)" Say,
however, half of those sued in 2004 were using FastTrack, that leaves
3,261 non-FastTrack related lawsuits, says Mennecke. "You would then
have a 1 in 3,679 chance of being sued. That still places you above all
external cases of mortality (1 in 1,755), but below all
transportational accidents (1 in 5,953.) However, you would still have
a better chance of being killed in an unintentional accident (1 in
2,698), then being sued by the RIAA. "Although
these numbers are hardly an exact science, they do reflect the odds of
being sued are little different than the risks one takes by simply
living day-to-day life. But if we were to get real specific, the odds
of being sued by the RIAA for non-FastTrack users (1 in 3,679) is still
much greater than death by contact with a venomous snake or lizard (1
in 95 million.)” FICTION: Thousands of Americans have been found guilty of 'file sharing'. FACT: Not one person has ever been found guilty of file sharing, or of anything else. And that's because until Patricia Santangelo came along, not one person had been willing to risk going up against the labels. This in turn has meant no one has appeared before a judge and no alleged case of 'file sharing' has ever been taken to its conclusion. Worse, the practice makes a mockery of a corner stone of the American legal system: that people are innocent until they're proven guilty. However, the cartel and their RIAA and other
similar industry owned enforcement organizations continue to issue
disingenuous press releases suggesting they've successfully prosecuted
thousands of 'criminal, thieving' file sharers. We
could go on because pick virtually any aspect of p2p file sharing in
music industry statements, and the odds are far better than even that
they'll be distortions, if not outright lies, carefully crafted to give
the appearance that the labels are beleaguered corporate citizens doing
their honest best to survive in a world where millions upon millions of
file sharing thieves get up every morning, bent on robbing the labels
of what's rightfully theirs, depriving their contracted artists of
their livings and causing terrible hardship to support workers. The
contention is obvious nonsense. Nonetheless, the mainstream media
repeat these "facts" as though they're a genuine reflection of what's
occurring, and as though they come from credible and reliable sources. And
while the labels and their counterparts in the movie and software
industries do their best to imitate King Canute in his attempts to turn
back the tide, the p2p networks have become a permanent part of the
online scene, solidly locked in. Peer-to-peer
is here to stay and as British ISP network service CacheLogic says in a
just-published report, p2p not only represented 60% of Net traffic at
the end of 2004, it “outstrips every other communication and
distribution protocol and is still growing”. Moreover, p2p and broadband are mutually compatible forces, each driving the uptake of the other, says the report. Edited by cobb |
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Eetu Pellonpaa
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 17 2005 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 4828 |
Posted: September 24 2005 at 08:02 | ||||
Do we really? I didn't know you know finnish laws so well! Congratulations to you! You are truly a devoted man!
It's a completelly different issue, do Finnish authorities note such silly things as crime, or do they not. Are you one their agents, as you are promoting them and scaring people here with such nonsense? Don't you have anything better to do here as a collaborator, which I noted you are? |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Posted: September 24 2005 at 08:11 | ||||
Relax dude, you're taking this way more seriously than I do. BTW: So you're saying that filesharing is legal in Finnland? If so ... well, good for you. |
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Schizoid Man
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 03 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 251 |
Posted: September 24 2005 at 11:00 | ||||
Interesting stuff indeed. I was browsing the alt.music.winmx.newsgroup the day WinMX went down (9/20) and found the following exchanges for the question: Is WinMX pay subscription now?
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Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.
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Logos
Prog Reviewer Joined: March 08 2005 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 2383 |
Posted: September 24 2005 at 11:30 | ||||
It's Finland, by the way. |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Posted: September 24 2005 at 11:37 | ||||
Of course it is ... sorry. It's "Finnland" in German, and also "Finnish" or "A Finn" ... languages are strange. |
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Eetu Pellonpaa
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 17 2005 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 4828 |
Posted: September 24 2005 at 12:01 | ||||
Sorry for those posts. I was allready in a bad mood due my painful sickness and other private problems. Forgive me. I just got a very arrogant expression of you, when you started to tell me how laws actually work here in Finland. I doubt you know very much of our practice of law. I'm not a lawyer either, but my father is, so I know something about some issues I have talked with him about. Downloading and sharing files are not legal in Finland, but it hasn't been seen as enough important issue to put resources to hunting down kids sharing Britney Spears from the net. I have an understanding, that we have the highest violence rate in Europe when measured to the population rate, so the authorities are not interested to use their small resources to so unimportant issues. Those swiss bastards cannot alter the decisions of our prosecutors in any way. Any documents indicating my actions in the web could be a hoax, so they should come to fetch my computer and check it out for evidence. Now, homesearching warrants are not granted to the authorities, unless the penalty of crime suspected is over six motnhts of jail. You don't get six months of jail from spreading the music on internet, you get it from stabbing people in the street or something like that. Here's a link which has all finnish laws. It's in finnish, so it's not very valuable to those not speaking finnish though... If I should get any note from such company, which I don't find very probably, as I'm not much into filesharing, I would wipe my sh*ty ass on the paper and send it back to them for further examining. Well. Maybe I poisoned this discussion enough from my part, and it's better for me to stop here. And once more, sorry if I hurted your feelings. |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Posted: September 24 2005 at 12:47 | ||||
^ no problem. I just posted the info on Logistep because it's really a groundbreaking new concept. They are doing it in Germany and it looks like it's working. I'm certain that they will expand their service to other countries, and I don't know whether it's possible in Finland - maybe, maybe not. P E A C E. P.S.: Who needs filesharing anyway when there's websites like www.last.fm. |
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Eetu Pellonpaa
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 17 2005 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 4828 |
Posted: September 24 2005 at 13:11 | ||||
Amen to that. |
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