Does Metal preclude Progressiveness?

This one's for you, ... let me rephrase that: for the only collaborator that seems to think that Metal precludes Progressiveness.

BTW: preclude means "rule out", so this poll is basically about the question if metal and prog are possible together, or if any one of these two attributes rules out the other.

philippe wrote: becareful, according to the rules you are not allowed to make personnal attacks on the forum...you have better to delete this subject or avoid to mention my name

It's certainly not an attack ... if you feel that offended, let me know. I'm merely dedicating this poll to you.

If you want to follow this discussion I advise you to send PM, maybe we will find a consensus.

I'm not sure that our point of divergences interest others members

philippe wrote: If you want to follow this discussion I advise you to send PM, maybe we will find a consensus. I'm not sure that our point of divergences interest others members

I don't think that we can find a consensus ... and I don't really want to discuss it. I've tried, and it always ended with a "yes it is - no it isn't - yes it is - no it isn't" situation. Let's just agree to disagree - you don't like any metal, I like metal and much more. It's just when you say stuff like "Satriani can't play classical guitar" or "Pain of Salvation are a sloppy band" that I get personal, because it's just objectively wrong.

I would really like to see how this poll turns out. This isn't about our differences, but about the question if Metal precludes Progressiveness. There's nothing personal or offensive about that.

tuxon wrote: What does preclude mean, surely you mean prelude. I think they both started at aproximatly the same time, so I don't think metal served as a prelude to prog rock, but prog rock didn't serve as a prelude to metal also. The excisted besides each other, and got mingled to form prog-metal.

Here's a definition of "preclude":

I think you can paraphrase it with "rule out".

philippe wrote: I personnaly like the music of a few heavy metal bands (Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep, the two first Judas Priest, the first Yngwie Malmsteen, The two first Satriani, and a few others shreders). It's not a reason to say that they are progressive, just because you like them (they play in a clever way that's why they are progressive? sorry but things don't go like this)

Hey, I agree with that.

That reminds me of my thread about the difference between Fusion and Fusion. In a nutshell, I don't think that the Derek Sherinian albums are Prog. But they are Fusion. And since Fusion is listed as a subgenre of Prog here, Sherinian can be included. If so, Satriani should also be included.

So basically, I'm not saying that Satriani is Prog at all. But considering how the subgenres are defined here, he could be included in the Fusion subgenre.

philippe wrote: all right, if you admit a VERY VERY VERY generous conception of progressive rock (oh yes, a question have you ever heard the 70's solid prog rock scene from your country?)

I'm not much into Krautrock, if that's what you mean. I'm not sure if I'd like it, but I'll definitely try some time. But it was before my time (I was born in 1975), and I don't think that the attitude of bands like Can is compatible with mine ... at least if it's true that Can means Chaos, Anarchy and Nihilism (or something like that).

Edit: I found the CAN band name reference:

http://www.heathenworld.com/bandname/

"Keyboard player Irmin Schmidt once defined CAN as an acronym for "Communist, Anarchism, Nihilism"" Even worse ...

MikeEnRegalia wrote: philippe wrote: all right, if you admit a VERY VERY VERY generous conception of progressive rock (oh yes, a question have you ever heard the 70's solid prog rock scene from your country?) I'm not much into Krautrock, if that's what you mean. I'm not sure if I'd like it, but I'll definitely try some time. But it was before my time (I was born in 1975), and I don't think that the attitude of bands like Can is compatible with mine ... at least if it's true that Can means Chaos, Anarchy and Nihilism (or something like that).

As far as I know the band chose this name because in different languages (English, Turkish, Japanese and some others) it stands for positive things like 'love' or 'feelings' or 'potential'. 

philippe wrote: I've longely explain in others similar subjects the reasons why I defend the fact that metal + prog is an oxymoron. The combination dosen't make any sense, it's just as idiot as if you say that you eat a burning (hot) icecream...sorry but I'm not alone to think that

Yes you aren't alone, I agree with you.

There might be heavy prog rock (King Crimson, Van der Graaf), but no prog metal. Sorry, it's impossible.

Prog Metal is basically Prog Rock with a hard-edge nothing more. Prog Metal is MUCH MUCH MORE connected to Prog Rock than to regular Metal becuase of the structure, songwriting and the playing abilities.