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Topic ClosedWhy not, Flamenco Rock as a PA genre?
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Popovych View Drop Down
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Points: 35 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why not, Flamenco Rock as a PA genre?
    Posted: November 06 2011 at 11:32
Hi Mates, I'm a Spanish Prog fan. 
Last days, I've been thinking about there isn't a spanish genre by itself, in Progarchives. I think that Flamenco-Rock could be a PA genre.

Groups like Triana, Smash, Storm, Cai, Iman Califato Independiente, Mezquita, Alameda, could be an own musical genre. Flamenco influences, Moorish melodies, spanish guitarr....

What do you think?
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2011 at 11:39
I have this one by Sabicas which is flamenco meets psych. A wonderful record!!
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Points: 3658 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2011 at 11:44
Please no !! But the band Carmen (see interview) is excellent though. You forgot to mention them ! Grrrr  !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Points: 4006 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2011 at 12:54
Hi Popovych, welcome to ProgArchives! Prog Andaluz has been suggested several times but I'm afraid to say it's not going to happen any time soon. Check out Luca's thread which has some nice recommendations and links to other threads that might interest you:
 
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Popovych View Drop Down
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Points: 35 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2011 at 13:02
Thanks mates! I'll see son this post!
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Points: 3658 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2011 at 13:13
I would also like to add that the music from Spain is excellent and deserve praise. Clap
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Points: 7275 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2011 at 20:15
Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

I would also like to add that the music from Spain is excellent and deserve praise. Clap

Actually, the food, wine, women and scenery of Spain are all excelente !   

I'd look forward to hearing some Spanish flameco prog, as I'm only familiar with Dimeola's tinkering with it.  

Among God's creatures two, the dog and the guitar, have taken all the sizes and all the shapes, in order not to be separated from the man.
    
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Points: 178 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2011 at 22:18
Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

Please no !! But the band Carmen (see interview) is excellent though. You forgot to mention them ! Grrrr  !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Didn't John Glascock play for them?
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Points: 10841 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2011 at 06:19
Maybe this genre could be associated with the Progressive Folk genre? 
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Points: 1243 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2011 at 18:27
Hey! Welcome and join the fight! I still think that "Rock Andaluz" should be separated from other Prog sub-genres!
Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com)
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Points: 27 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2011 at 08:40
hmm never heard of flamenco rock before. That's some pretty good stuff actually. Definitely has it's own distinct sound.
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Points: 11696 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2011 at 09:22
I'll give you the ultimate Flamenco Rock experience: Morena Y Clara - No Llores Mas. Surreal. More Lynch than Lynch.


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Points: 5154 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2011 at 06:29
Welcome Popovych!
I'm another spanish progger (catalan) although I currently live in Belgium.
 
There's a lot of great Flamenco-Prog indeed (personally I prefer calling it Prog Andaluz but it doesn't matter) and it has enough personal traits as for being considered a sub-genre on its own.
 
My only problem with that approach is that those traits are purely related to the use of elements of the particular folk / popular music in a particular region of the planet.
 
I'm not too familiar with much prog from "non-standard"regions or countries (I mean other than the UK, USA, Italy, Spain, France, Germany etc) but I guess that many other bands incorporate musical influences from the popular music in their country, and if we start labeling each as a sub-genre we would end up with hundreds of sub-genre names which would tell us little about the music other than where does the music come from, I mean it might be kind of silly to end up labeling bands just as "prog andaluz", "catalan prog", "turkish prog", "bulgarian prog", "argentinian prog" etc etc.
 
Although actually we have a sub-genre for Raga-Indo so maybe you're not so far off?
 
Anyway I agree that there's a lot of great music in prog andaluz and I take the occasion to encourage those who are not familiar with it to discover it. The bands mentioned in the OP are a nice summary of the most relevant, and this link to all the spanish bands in PA may also help but you should dig a bit to find the andalusian ones.
 
 
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Points: 35948 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2011 at 08:13
Goma's a good one.  This is from 14 Abril.
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Points: 3658 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2011 at 12:32

I think everyone is comfortable with the genres and the genre definitions now. So your interest in Spanish/Andalucian prog rock is best promoted by setting up an Appreciation society here. Something I would like to be member of myself. I just got some Medina Azahara albums today and I am really looking forward to spin these albums in the near future.

So please feel free to establish an appreciation society and do post Youtubes and good tip offs to the rest of us.
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Points: 1243 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2011 at 19:32
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Welcome Popovych!
I'm another spanish progger (catalan) although I currently live in Belgium.

 

There's a lot of great Flamenco-Prog indeed (personally I prefer calling it Prog Andaluz but it doesn't matter) and it has enough personal traits as for being considered a sub-genre on its own.

 

My only problem with that approach is that those traits are purely related to the use of elements of the particular folk / popular music in a particular region of the planet.

 

I'm not too familiar with much prog from "non-standard"regions or countries (I mean other than the UK, USA, Italy, Spain, France, Germany etc) but I guess that many other bands incorporate musical influences from the popular music in their country, and if we start labeling each as a sub-genre we would end up with hundreds of sub-genre names which would tell us little about the music other than where does the music come from, I mean it might be kind of silly to end up labeling bands just as "prog andaluz", "catalan prog", "turkish prog", "bulgarian prog", "argentinian prog" etc etc.

 

Although actually we have a sub-genre for Raga-Indo so maybe you're not so far off?

 

Anyway I agree that there's a lot of great music in prog andaluz and I take the occasion to encourage those who are not familiar with it to discover it. The bands mentioned in the OP are a nice summary of the most relevant, and this link to all the spanish bands in PA may also help but you should dig a bit to find the andalusian ones.

 


 


Just to be a bit contentious...

Here you have three examples of bands that blend local folk elements into prog without producing a distinctive new subgenre:

*Israel's Sheshet (more to do with Jazz-Rock, Symphonic Prog and Gentle Giant = a perfect fit for eclectic):


*Venezuela's Vytas Brenner (a mixture of symphonic prog and latin jazz-rock with some Venezuelan folk touches = also eclectic prog):


*Now from Spain itself we have Cai (also with some Andalucian elements but more symphonic and fusion oriented):


-----------------------

On the other hand we have groups such as Triana that have a very unique sound and whose compositions are more influenced by Andalucian (or Flamenco) music than anything else (and IMO -with the risk of pissing some people off- the sound is much more distinctive than RPI -which to me sounds too close to Symphonic Prog because of the predominant classical influences-).


... but at the end (again, with the risk of pissing some people off) it is as Prog Folk as any group in Indo-Raga or Folk Prog itself.


Edited by ProgressiveAttic - November 13 2011 at 18:41
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Points: 2 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2013 at 13:51

I know you probably think:  "This noob guy is annoying us with this topic again", but I have been reading this post: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63585&PN=1 and I will answer here, because it is a similar topic.


I still think Andalusian Rock is a genuine subgenre. The main arguments you post against it are: 1) It is a geographical subgenre. 2) There are only a dozen bands.


Respect to 1, bands do not come only from Andalusia. There are some other bands from Spain that could be considered as Andalusian Rock bands. As far as I know, there is no Andalusian-influenced bands out of Spain. Andalusian rock is defined as a flamenco influenced prog rock and that is independent from their origins. For example Alameda was from Madrid but still they are defined as Andalusian Rock band*.


Respect  to the number of bands, here are some bands I know and they are more than a dozen: Gong (spanish), Nuevos tiempo, Sabicas with Joe Beck, Manuel (Lole y Manuel), Julio (Smash), Smash, Carmen, Gualberto, Lole y Manuel, Galaxia, Tabaca, Triana, All & nothing, Taranto's, Flamenco, Goma, Manuel Imán, Altozano, Imán califato independiente, Manglis, Manteca, Guadalquivir, Arrajatabla, Diego Cortés, El turronero, Paco Herrera, El toíto, Camarón (only La leyenda del tiempo LP), Azahar, Pedro Ruy-Blas, Granada, Diego de Morón, Iceberg, Fusioon, Toti Soler, Miguel Ríos (only Al-Andalus LP), Dofus, Tartesos, Cal, Alameda, The storm, Veneno, Cucharada (only El limpiabotas que quería ser torero LP), Tabletom, Jarapo, Mezquita, Medina Azahara, Cai, Fragua, Vega, Cal y canto, Al-Andalus, Al-Dar, Formas, Cuarto Menguante, Barbacoa, Montoro, Khorus, Expresión, Mantra and Zaguán *.

Another interesting reason supporting Andalusian Rock as a subgenre is that  many people in PA frequently tag some of the bands referenced above as andalusian rock.

*Clemente, Luis: Rock Andaluz, una discografía, Ed. Ayuntamiento de Montilla, Sevilla, 2006, ISBN 84-89619-94-8

*http://www.arabiandrock.org/
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Points: 17529 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2013 at 16:00
Hi,
 
I've said all along that there is a lot of music around the world that is influenced by their own arts and their own history, and that they created a lot of progressive music, and that voice has largely been ignored, and I want to thank you for helping put this into light again.
 
 There is a concern though ... there are over 200 countries in the world and playing soccer in Fifa ... and how the heck will you create 200 threads about 200 different cultures? Now you have a problem.
 
But some areas are very lively. Germany had its "krautrock", Italy had its form, which had a lot of influences from classical music, France had its own, which was very independant, and later places like Brazil, Argentina and Mexico also created a lot of music that is very good, but we are not good listeners for it.
 
I don't want to soften the impact or the show of force in the music, but I would be concerned with creating one, and not the other.
 
Perhaps, PA can create an international section and allow a few countries added in there, but I would not be surprised to see the list of countries in our database to be near or above 100 of them.
 
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2014 at 22:25
Ha! Hello Popovych,
I honestly love your genre suggestion. This could be an added value to the site. Besides the fact in terms of the world’s demographic population, Spanish is the 4th most spoken language in the world (Mandarin 1st and English 2nd), Spain also played a big part in progressive music, i.e. the 6 string acoustic guitar, and the form of the modern classical guitar is credited to Spanish guitar maker Antonio Torres around 1850. Antonio Torres' design greatly improved the volume, tone, and projection of the instrument, and has remained essentially unchanged to date. Spanish guitar tunes are unique, clever/complex while producing most memorable tunes. 8 string guitar which came later is not Spanish and sounds completely different too.
Italian prog is known for being symphonic progressive aka with great orchestration.
Spanish too is symphonic, different however it is most touching too, if you have time pls listen to this; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-4H4310JFg&list=FLW3NlyKPJqFL8OnvvATV4YQ
The youtube link is Concierto de Aranjuez - Joaquín Rodrigo, by a genius Spanish composer from previous century who unlike others was the first to bring the guitar at the forefront of an orchestra.
P.S. Al DiMeola’s parents came from Spain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-4H4310JFg&list=FLW3NlyKPJqFL8OnvvATV4YQ
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