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Topic ClosedPeter Sinfeld's Influence on KC Instrumentals?

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Anthony H. View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Peter Sinfeld's Influence on KC Instrumentals?
    Posted: April 24 2011 at 17:41
I've made an observation while listening though the Crimson discog.

The four King Crimson albums on which Peter Sinfeld wrote lyrics (ItCotCK, ItWoP, Lizard, and Islands) don't feature very many instrumentals. Most KC albums after these contain at least two. How big of an influence do you think Sinfeld was on this trend? Did Fripp not write instrumental tracks because of the access he had to Sinfeld's lyrics, or did the fact that Sinfeld contributed only lyrics make it so that Fripp was obligated to include vocal work?
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Triceratopsoil View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2011 at 18:48
I dunno, but I love Sinfield's lyrics despite near-incoherency.
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cstack3 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2011 at 21:27
Seek the truth via Fripp's diary!  Here's an interesting entry:

Andrew Keeling's diary on KNews for Tuesday, August 2 2005: …King Crimson's Islands is playing in the back room. I felt I should remove it from its home on the CD shelf and play it this morning. Sailor's Tale. RF has bad memories of this period KC. PS thinks it's the route KC should have taken and sees Islands as (quote) 'my Islands'…


This explains a lot, and raises questions.


I'm not sure why Peter Sinfield would consider Islands to be his album, although it became clear at the time that Peter was increasingly using KC as a vehicle for his personal ambitions, rather than a joint/group undertaking. On Islands Peter expanded his brief to include cover design, rather than using an outside artist (in the US Atlantic declined to use Peter's cover, preferring the inner sleeve of the nebula cluster). At live shows, VCS3 explosions & effects from Peter's FOH desk suggested a metaphorical climbing-onstage. EG Management, experiencing the difficulties of managing an offstage member of KC who wanted the visibility of an onstage presence, put the sound mixer of their next band onstage right from the beginning, in order to head-off the problem: Eno with Roxy Music.


The creative power that brought KC to life in 1969, which we called the "good fairy", did not originate in the young men that formed the band: it acted through & upon them. As an older player, I look back with greater experience of the workings of the creative process; and find the creative impulse that came into our lives unimaginably more generous than I could appreciate at the time, and even more mysterious.


When the creative current turns on, genuine insight can move to fantasy. This is particularly so with young people who suddenly become successful & the centre of attention; suddenly become important income-generators (for their managers & handlers rather than themselves). Whims tend to be humoured & demands (not always reasonable or measured) addressed, at least for a time, to keep the artist within the loop.


Aspiration pulls us forward, towards the aim. Ambition pushes us forward, the aim serving as the vehicle to achieve our personal ends. A prime distinguishing characteristic between aspiration & fantasy is in knowing where we are, where we are going, our talents & resources, and the particular contribution & tasks that are required of us. In a word, realism.


I don't doubt that Peter's feelings are genuine, that he honestly believes himself to be KC's Good Fairy. This would explain the bitterness, ongoing to this day. But realistically, how was Islands Peter's album? Peter didn't compose or play music; his contribution was not of the catalysing & conceptual kind that Eno brings; and Eno's "non-musicianship" was of a different order. Peter's exceptional talent & contribution lay elsewhere; as the world has justly recognised.


Which musical route did Peter want for KC? That of Formentera Lady? Ladies Of The Road? Scored music for chamber orchestra? And how could any route have been continued, even were Peter to have remained within the band? Peter's considerable talents were not musical. Peter had no musical & performing experience, compositional or executant skills. And personally, I prefer Larks' Tongues In Aspic, Fracture & Red to Formentera Lady; with due respect to all the talented characters involve



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Harry Hood View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2011 at 23:20
Pete Sinfield was a roadie who got to write lyrics because Greg Lake's lyrics were consistently atrocious.
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Gerinski View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2011 at 03:06
I guess that yes, having a dedicated lyricist in the band, and specially such a strong one as Pete Sinfield, undoubtedly had an influence as to making songs with vocals. Pete's departure freed Fripp to write more instrumentals.
 
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cstack3 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2011 at 15:34
Originally posted by Harry Hood Harry Hood wrote:

Pete Sinfield was a roadie who got to write lyrics because Greg Lake's lyrics were consistently atrocious.

Actually, from what I've read, he was much more than that, approaching the status of bandmate of the rest.  Sinfield operated the KC live light-show (gawd, I would have loved to have seen that!), wrote lyrics, and contributed a bit to the live music with VC3 synth or some-such. 

Fripp's writings seem to indicate friction regarding "ownership" of the music, and one has to ask - which was more important at the beginning, the music or the lyrics?  Arguments could be made both ways, but the power of Sinfield's lyrics in ITCOTCK most certainly helped to spark widespread interest in the band.  I doubt that an instrumental KC in the beginning would have caught on. 

Not sure how accurate this all is, but it is certainly worth a look!
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Harry Hood View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2011 at 23:54
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by Harry Hood Harry Hood wrote:

Pete Sinfield was a roadie who got to write lyrics because Greg Lake's lyrics were consistently atrocious.
Actually, from what I've read, he was much more than that, approaching the status of bandmate of the rest.  Sinfield operated the KC live light-show (gawd, I would have loved to have seen that!), wrote lyrics, and contributed a bit to the live music with VC3 synth or some-such. 

If you operate the light show you are a roadie. And there are many instances where a roadie contributes instrumentally (for instance, the sound guy plays the sax at Violent Femmes shows). And like I said, he was approached to write lyrics because when Greg Lake wrote lyrics we got "Lucky Man" and "Taste of My Love".

When Sinfield left the Crims and joined ELP, it was the same circumstances. Roadie and lyricist. They were ELP, not ELPS (and certainly not SELP).Wink


Edited by Harry Hood - April 25 2011 at 23:59
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