Music Licensing and the Mob

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   So I play in a little folkie duo as an outlet doing mostly covers and a few originals. My partner has a friend who recently started a little bicycle shop / coffee shop and once a month let us play live. The audience was almost entirely friends and family and a few people who wandered by. No cover charge, we didn't get paid, but we did set out a tip jar.

Recently someone from BMI called our friends saying they have to pay a licensing fee to have live music at their place of business. Since paying both BMI and ASCAP far exceeds the amount of money they would have made in extra coffee and sandwiches, this effectively means we can't play there anymore. 

Now I understand songwriters need to get royalties for the profits made using their work. But Van Morrison and Tom Waits were never going to see a dime of the fee as a result of us playing their music. It seems like a shakedown.

From what I've read, it's not uncommon for these organizations to target small businesses they know don't have the cash to pay legal fees. 

Yes I'm just complaining, but I'm curious to hear other's experiences about this kind of thing. 

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Negoba Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: July 24 2008 Location: Big Muddy Status: Offline Points: 5208	Topic: Music Licensing and the Mob Posted: April 08 2011 at 08:19
	So I play in a little folkie duo as an outlet doing mostly covers and a few originals. My partner has a friend who recently started a little bicycle shop / coffee shop and once a month let us play live. The audience was almost entirely friends and family and a few people who wandered by. No cover charge, we didn't get paid, but we did set out a tip jar. Recently someone from BMI called our friends saying they have to pay a licensing fee to have live music at their place of business. Since paying both BMI and ASCAP far exceeds the amount of money they would have made in extra coffee and sandwiches, this effectively means we can't play there anymore. Now I understand songwriters need to get royalties for the profits made using their work. But Van Morrison and Tom Waits were never going to see a dime of the fee as a result of us playing their music. It seems like a shakedown. From what I've read, it's not uncommon for these organizations to target small businesses they know don't have the cash to pay legal fees. Yes I'm just complaining, but I'm curious to hear other's experiences about this kind of thing.
	You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.

harmonium.ro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989	Posted: April 08 2011 at 08:21
	The license fee is something else than the collection of royalties from the songs performed? Both have to be paid? Or just the fixed sum (the license fee) has to be paid, and then you can play what you want?

Epignosis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32524	Posted: April 08 2011 at 08:23
	Jay, you're welcome to cover any Epignosis material free of charge!
	https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays

harmonium.ro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989	Posted: April 08 2011 at 08:29
	Too late, it's already regulated by the govn'ment Rob, you can't do anything about it unless you follow the proper channels.

Negoba Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: July 24 2008 Location: Big Muddy Status: Offline Points: 5208	Posted: April 08 2011 at 08:34
	BMI and ASCAP (and SESAC) act as intermediaries with the express purpose of collecting royalties for copyright holders of music. If you have the permission to play the music from the copyright owner, (like if I played all Epignosis covers) everyone is covered. If we play all originals, we're covered. A business using music pays a yearly fee, whether you're a restaurant with a jukebox, a bookstore piping in a CD, or apparently a coffee shop with artists playing cover material. Apparently, by strictest law, if you play covers live, every member of the band is supposed to be able to produce the legitimately purchased sheet music to the songs they play. . But the agencies typically don't go after artists (until it's obvious their pockets are deep enough) but do target businesses. Regular music venues pay this stuff as the cost of doing business, but it really is an undue burden on very small businesses. In addition, these organizations are notoriously poor at paying out to artists. The typical scenario is they shake down a business, if the fee is paid, they're never heard from again. If no payment, they can come, listen to your set, and say e.g. Van Morrison is a BMI artist and you played "Brown Eyed Girl," they can actually recover up to $20,000 per song. It's a racket. Edited by Negoba - April 08 2011 at 08:38
	You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.

Negoba Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: July 24 2008 Location: Big Muddy Status: Offline Points: 5208	Posted: April 08 2011 at 08:39
	Private industry here, backed by law. They're all crooks.
	You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.

harmonium.ro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989	Posted: April 08 2011 at 08:41
	I really don't see the point in paying both the royalties and the fee. Maybe I'm missing certain aspects that I'm not aware of. And the sheet music thing is stupid. You're not allowed to play something that you memorized by ear?

Negoba Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: July 24 2008 Location: Big Muddy Status: Offline Points: 5208	Posted: April 08 2011 at 09:30
	The idea is that if you're making money in any way off another's work, they deserve a piece of the profit. Both the artist and the venue, in theory, make money. Therefore, they should both pay to use other artists' work. These middle men collect the money from anyone they perceive as making profit from their artists' work, and then pay out royalties accordingly. Unfortunately, they only pay out when it is clear and obvious when a specific work was used for a specific profit. But they collect on anyone who vaguely is profitting. Classic middleman BS.
	You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.

ArcNatrix Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Newbie Joined: March 14 2011 Location: Sydney, NS, Can Status: Offline Points: 8	Posted: April 10 2011 at 12:56
	Now I'm not 100% clear on copyright laws with the exception that whoever passed many of these bills probably wasn't mentally fit enough to be given such a responsibility in the first place. But if I'm not mistaken, record companies are entitled to a cut of what all parties make when a band is covering songs. So if you make zero dollars from this show and the shop makes zero dollars from this show then you can send BMI's check in the mail, tell 'em where to stick it, and by law they can't say jack sh*t. The problem is, once again, they're racketeers hiding behind the law so if you piss 'em off there's no telling what extremes they'll resort to. I have a Dream Theater cover on YouTube which I put online for free. WMG found it and told YouTube that it could stay as long as they post advertisements all over it. Not that I'm going to freak over a few pennies or whatever but even though by law I am entitled to a cut (as well as DT for that matter) there ain't no way in hell WMG will allow that. If you ask me, organized crime went corporate. Edited by ArcNatrix - April 10 2011 at 19:51