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Topic ClosedMy PA rant: Stop reviewing sub-genres you dislike

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frippism View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: My PA rant: Stop reviewing sub-genres you dislike
    Posted: April 05 2011 at 14:19
First of all- sorry if this is in the wrong place, wasn't really sure where to put it. OK carrying on:

I've started quite a hooha when I reported a review of Cardiacs' "Sing To God" when the user posting that review reviewed/rated more than 70 (or more I don't recall) albums under the RIO/Avant-Prog genre 1 star. The discussion led to should PA members be banned for generally just reviewing a bunch of albums 1 star resulting from an obvious dislike to sub-genre (and being general jerks)? My answer in the end of the matter was no- you can't. Who am I are or anyone else to judge why review anything.
Wiiiiiith that I think there is also a place to improve PA users judgement skills and make them a better PA user (in my opinion, of course) and in the end a better person! Because being a better prog reviewer leads to a better life! And my rant is this: DON'T! DO NOT! JUST DON'T REVIEW ALBUMS UNDER SUB-GENRES YOU GENERALLY DISLIKE. AND PARTICULARLY DON'T TAKE OUT YOUR DISLIKING TO A WHOLE SUB-GENRE IN ONE REVIEW OF ONE ALBUM, WHO DOESN'T DESERVE THE UNFAIR REVIEW. 

Back to library voice. Let me use an example: I rather have a disliking to Neo-Prog. Not only in its sound and melodic and harmonic compositional approach to music, but also in its composing ideology. And because I have a general disliking for Neo-Prog I DO NOT REVIEW NEO-PROGRESSIVE MUSIC. My opinions will not only hurt an albums rating average, but it will do so unfairly. All I will be able to write is why I dislike the album because I dislike Neo-Prog (enter general Neo-Prog stereotype here). Someone who says- "I enjoy lush keyboards and soaring guitars and long compositions", will not care for my review which will say "I don't like lush keyboards and soaring guitars and that's why this album sucks". Instead, this reviewer will be and should be interested in the opinions of those who like Neo-Prog as a whole, like many bands from Neo-Prog, and agree with the general Neo-Prog ideology. The people who enjoy and listen to Neo-Prog can give a fairer criterion (well it won't be perfect in any way, but fairer it will be) on whether the album is a good album or not, according to what a Neo-Prog fan would want to find in an album. 

So conclusion, if you simply review an album badly because you hate on a certain sub-genre, instead of why the album is good or bad according from someone who understands more in the sub-genre, generally appreciates the genre, and has a well and strong opinion on why this albums is good and why the album is bad. They shouldn't dish out some annoying fact like: " I hate growling= bad music/album"  


Edited by frippism - April 05 2011 at 14:22
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2011 at 14:24
I feel for you, but I can't agree. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2011 at 14:27
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

I feel for you, but I can't agree. 

Go on....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2011 at 14:35
That was it. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2011 at 14:39
I can see your point, but, as with Alex, I can't agree with it.

What I would say is go ahead and review a neo prog album, but make it clear in your review that you dislike the sub genre and that this should be taken into consideration when reading the review.

Even better, though, is that the better reviewers will put aside their personal prejudices and review/rate an album based upon the merits or otherwise of that particular piece of work.

I will put my hands up here. I am now in the top 100 reviewers in terms of numbers of reviews, and I like to think that I abide by what I said above. However, I have been guilty in one of my earliest reviews of a terrible amount of personal prejudice, and that was for Yes' Drama, which I awarded the ultimate stinker of one star. 

I still dislike the album, but it is certainly not that bad, and when I have time, I will revisit that one, and uplift the rating to where I think it should be stripping aside my personal prejudice of a great band without one of my lifelong idols.

However, free speech and all, you simply cannot impose a ban or rule such as the one you are suggesting, and, anyway, we are all pretty good at spotting the trolls, idiots, and general troublemakersWink 




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2011 at 14:39
here here
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2011 at 14:41
i generally review albums I feel are 4 or 5 star albums, as I dont feel anything less deserves my time (thus just a rating will be used) unless it is something I despise by an otherwise enjoyable band/artist, but even then I usually just use the rating star system

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2011 at 14:51
I can see your point and I DO agree.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2011 at 15:01
Hi,
 
You know ... this place is a socio-democracy that has more ideas than you can imagine ... I have been asking for that to be looked at ... and all I get is ... this is a site where everyone has the input, not just a special group of people ... with one concern ... you would think that the people involved with (let's say) "krautrock" would ask Pedro to add/update a couple of things, along with BaldJean and such ... but it will never happen ...
 
I do NOT write reviews of films that I didn't care for. I do NOT write reviews for albums I did not think were "up to par" or "snuff" ... and even in the forums, I don't enjoy trashing groups themselves ... I am more likely to trash a person that thinks they like this and that and they do not really seem to know, or understand,  what they just said ... or any idea of what they just said, or stood up for ... the brashness of youth ... sometimes it is magnificent for the arts ... but it's quite stupid in many other situations ... specially when they are totally idealistic!
 
I will ask again ... we need to raise the level and quality of the reviews ... and the people in charge of each area, would be the ones responsible for making sure that the reviews are worth the salt and show PA as the quality, and the intelligent and information site that it can be and is ... but it is all buried in too much garbage!
 
I'm predicting Snow Dog to tell me to shove off Shostakovitch!


Edited by moshkito - April 05 2011 at 15:09
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2011 at 15:03

Being a "progressive" person is the same as listening to sub genres you don't automatic like at the beginning. Like me when listening to Zeuhl. The suggestion here is that we should become "regressive" instead of "progressive".

Sorry, but I could not disagree more. I would urge anyone to listen to and review as many albums from genres which really challenge and "progress" your mind. Listen to Zeuhl and listen to the more challenging part of the Canterbury bands. Bands like Soft Machine. Don't seek shelter under your own bed. Be brave. Be progressive.

............. And that was a political broadcast from the Progressive Prog Party.........

   

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2011 at 15:05
There is nothing unfair about it.   And if an album's rating gets lowered because of it's genre, or the affectations it's musicians adopt, so what?  Ratings should reflect what all members generally think about an album, not just fanboys.
Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2011 at 15:06
Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

There is nothing unfair about it.   And if an album's rating gets lowered because of it's genre, or the affectations it's musicians adopt, so what?  Ratings should reflect what all members generally think about an album, not just fanboys.

What has "fanboys" got to do with it?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2011 at 15:12
I understand the OP's qualms with people who review genres they dislike. But this is not because one should not review genres that one is not particularly fond of, but because often when people do review such genres, they do so in an unthinking way.

I think when one reviews an album one has to step back and not ask how much do I like this, but is this a good album based on some more impersonal set of criteria. A reviewer needs to be able to distinguish their liking of an album, and what the album merits. Of course to some degree the two will be tied, but they are not the same, and one can recognize the value of an album that one is not particularly fond of, even if one does not find listening to it that enjoyable.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2011 at 15:14
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

There is nothing unfair about it.   And if an album's rating gets lowered because of it's genre, or the affectations it's musicians adopt, so what?  Ratings should reflect what all members generally think about an album, not just fanboys.

What has "fanboys" got to do with it?

They tend to write extremely positive reviews with high ratings. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2011 at 15:20

I tend to agree with the OP:

- first of all such reviews are generally uninteresting as they rarely communicate more then the fact that reviewer X doesn't like genre Y or dislikes growling. Big deal.

- secondly, a side-effect of this sort of reviewing is that it distorts the top album list for certain genres.
To give an example: The only world-famous krautrock band Can has just 1 album in the top 25 Kraut albums. That doesn't make PA into a very reliable resource on krautrock.

- thirdly, if reviewers (raters mostly) do this for a lot of albums, it's pathetic.




Edited by Bonnek - April 05 2011 at 15:22
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2011 at 15:23
I don't even bother to review albums I consider 1 star.  I've got better things to write about.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2011 at 15:27
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

There is nothing unfair about it.   And if an album's rating gets lowered because of it's genre, or the affectations it's musicians adopt, so what?  Ratings should reflect what all members generally think about an album, not just fanboys.

What has "fanboys" got to do with it?

They tend to write extremely positive reviews with high ratings. 

I swear people answer me as if I know nothing. I need to take a break from this place before I blow a f**king fuse.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2011 at 15:29
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

There is nothing unfair about it.   And if an album's rating gets lowered because of it's genre, or the affectations it's musicians adopt, so what?  Ratings should reflect what all members generally think about an album, not just fanboys.

What has "fanboys" got to do with it?

They tend to write extremely positive reviews with high ratings. 

I swear people answer me as if I know nothing. I need to take a break from this place before I blow a f**king fuse.

Really now, you get the answers that your questions call for. It would have helped if you developed a bit. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2011 at 15:31
Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

Being a "progressive" person is the same as listening to sub genres you don't automatic like at the beginning. Like me when listening to Zeuhl. The suggestion here is that we should become "regressive" instead of "progressive".

Sorry, but I could not disagree more. I would urge anyone to listen to and review as many albums from genres which really challenge and "progress" your mind. Listen to Zeuhl and listen to the more challenging part of the Canterbury bands. Bands like Soft Machine. Don't seek shelter under your own bed. Be brave. Be progressive.

............. And that was a political broadcast from the Progressive Prog Party.........

   

But no one is saying that to people writing really bad reviews that they should not have done ... it's almost like they did it just to cut down the list of unreviewed albums ... not because they wanted to review it! But wanting to review something just so you can say ... it's ship de poopoo ... who is that person trying to impress with their knowledge in music? Me? Snow Dog? Dean? Harmonium? Walter? Torod? .... and basically, all reviews should pass the muster and the grade from all of us ... so that we can raise the level of ability and consciousness of what the PA is all about ...
 
We can let the Forums be the free for all and fun ... I can enjoy that ...
 
But when it comes to the reviews, the band information, and the links ... it can NOT be a free for all, and the information and reviews need to be guarded a little better so you can have a better control on the information and what you want tohelp the "progressive music" era with ... because right now, a lot of the reviews are not very good and it is making a lot of the very bands that we love not be as good as we think.
 
Suggestion also:
That the reviews be sorted? ... by album? ... I think that we might give Genesis the incorrect impression if the review is a bad one and calls it pop music, and the next review is a 50/50 and the next review is a glowing one for The Lamb ... and the next review trashes Lamd as pretentious and some idealistic jargon and what not ... !!!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2011 at 15:32
I'm a man of statistics and therefore have nothing against bias, one way or the other, since it is filtered in the overall vote and actually makes the final album ratings more reliable. Unfortunately PA doesn't have that many albums with 1000+ ratings/reviews which does make biased reviews a problem.

At the same time, I do find these type of reviews hilariously entertaining. Time well spent no matter from which side you approach it.
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