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BarryGlibb 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 28 2010
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Status: Offline
Points: 1781
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 Topic: The slow demise of Gentle Giant in the top 100
Posted: March 13 2011 at 00:23 |
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I remember when I wasn't even a member of PA but had been looking at the site for a number of years before I joined and Gentle Giant had 5-6 albums in the top 100. Today they have 2 in the top 100 and I'm afraid that Free Hand is sitting precariously at 99 and will soon be pushed out. In A Glass House (at 42) is slowly sliding down the PA charts. Soon there will not be one Gentle Giant album in the top 100, which is outrageous considering their standing in the Prog community.
My suggestion is that discussion should commence by the powers that be that the top 100 should be exclusively for albums that have been rated by a large number of individuals, not albums that have only be rated a busload of people.
I suggest that albums in the top 100 should have at least 300 people rating it. I understand the algorithm rating but for example at present there are 50 albums in the top 100 that each have 300 members or less rating them; some even as low as 29 - 80 PA members rating them.
Surely something must be done. Otherwise how are Prog youngsters ever going to revere Prog legends such as Gentle Giant if they end up not having one album in the top 100 in PA?
Can we get something done about this?
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
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Points: 16715
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 00:42 |
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I'm sorry, but I'm laughing too hard to write a rational response to this post.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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GentleGiant
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 09 2006
Location: PantagrueLand
Status: Offline
Points: 445
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 00:50 |
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Top 100 is not navel Earth
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BeGiantForADay
"This British band is just the cup of tea for aficionados who demand virtuosity,progress and originality in their mix."
http://rateyourmusic.com/~GentleG
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BarryGlibb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 28 2010
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Status: Offline
Points: 1781
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 00:52 |
 Henry Plainview wrote:
I'm sorry, but I'm laughing too hard to write a rational response to this post. |
Am I missing something here?
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 01:11 |
BarryGlibb wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
I'm sorry, but I'm laughing too hard to write a rational response to this post. |
Am I missing something here?
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Yes, self-awareness.
Ok, I can't sleep I guess I can manage something. First of all, your claim that we need to modify the algorithm to protect Gentle Giant is absurd in every possible way. Glass House is hardly in a precarious position at 42, and why should we promote Gentle Giant over other bands that the rating base (apparently) likes more? I don't like Gentle Giant, and I really don't care that you do. Just as you don't care that I like Henry Cow and would not like us modifying the algorithm so that the number of ratings is less important so I can sneak one into the top 100. Should we also take pity on ELP because they only have one album in the top 100, and it's rated even lower than Glass House? Who decides what band is important enough to subvert their natural rating?
And did you look at the result of knocking out everything under 300? It's a very very boring list with only about 25 bands represented because only the very big bands can get enough star-only ratings from random people to make it. The current list represents prog much more than 7 Gentle Giant, Genesis, King Crimson, and Pink Floyd albums.
Edited by Henry Plainview - March 13 2011 at 01:12
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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BarryGlibb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 28 2010
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Status: Offline
Points: 1781
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 01:27 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
BarryGlibb wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
I'm sorry, but I'm laughing too hard to write a rational response to this post. |
Am I missing something here?
|
Yes, self-awareness.
Ok, I can't sleep I guess I can manage something. First of all, your claim that we need to modify the algorithm to protect Gentle Giant is absurd in every possible way. Glass House is hardly in a precarious position at 42, and why should we promote Gentle Giant over other bands that the rating base (apparently) likes more? I don't like Gentle Giant, and I really don't care that you do. Just as you don't care that I like Henry Cow and would not like us modifying the algorithm so that the number of ratings is less important so I can sneak one into the top 100. Should we also take pity on ELP because they only have one album in the top 100, and it's rated even lower than Glass House? Who decides what band is important enough to subvert their natural rating?
And did you look at the result of knocking out everything under 300? It's a very very boring list with only about 25 bands represented because only the very big bands can get enough star-only ratings from random people to make it. The current list represents prog much more than 7 Gentle Giant, Genesis, King Crimson, and Pink Floyd albums. |
Henry I don't think I like being dissed like this. I happen to have gret admniration for Henry Cow, Fred Frith etc. So you have good taste. I put this post up in good faith, just trying to contribute to the PA community. You seemed to like my Under appreciated Prog Spoon Player thread and I thought I had an ally. Not sure if that is so now.. I just feel that the top 100 is being infiltrated by albums that are only being rated by a few people (<100) that is all. And I put Gentle Giant in there as an example.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
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Points: 29630
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 01:31 |
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You will see an inevitable decline in the ratings for the artists that no longer make new music. It's really no big deal.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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SaltyJon
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 08 2008
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Points: 28772
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 01:36 |
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What he said (Henry and Slarti). I'm personally happy to see lesser-known bands making it onto the top 100. Of course, once they're there they're not quite as much "lesser-known" but still...diversity is a good thing. Gentle Giant will live without being in the top 100, and anyone who happens to click on the Eclectic Prog page will still be exposed to them since they have four albums in the Eclectic top 20.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 03:09 |
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Youngsters will find it the same way a lot of us probably did, through the internet.
There is this giant progressive rock site I heard about what a very active forum.
Besides, classics are classics. Anyone wanting to get into prog will come across GG I am sure...
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 03:37 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
I'm sorry, but I'm laughing too hard to write a rational response to this post. |
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BarryGlibb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 28 2010
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Status: Offline
Points: 1781
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 04:01 |
Triceratopsoil wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
I'm sorry, but I'm laughing too hard to write a rational response to this post. |
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And?
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darkshade
Collaborator
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Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
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Points: 10964
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 04:12 |
JJLehto wrote:
Youngsters will find it the same way a lot of us probably did, through the internet.
There is this giant progressive rock site I heard about what a very active forum.
Besides, classics are classics. Anyone wanting to get into prog will come across GG I am sure...
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all of this
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darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 04:14 |
by the way, i thought this thread was about the slow demise of Gentle Giant. Period. I was going to say, it wasn't slow, it was actually quite fast 
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BarryGlibb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 28 2010
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Status: Offline
Points: 1781
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 04:22 |
darkshade wrote:
by the way, i thought this thread was about the slow demise of Gentle Giant. Period.
I was going to say, it wasn't slow, it was actually quite fast
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Yes it is fast and that is my point. Caravan & ELP have gone. Focus, VdG Generator, Rush, Camel and even much of Yes are heading in the same direction. i.e. South bound.
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 04:27 |
BarryGlibb wrote:
Soon there will not be one Gentle Giant album in the top 100, which is outrageous considering their standing in the Prog community.
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Actually the "prog community" is an ever changing group of people, and even if we could get a representative bunch of them to vote on "top album ever", it remains to be seen whether today Gentle Giant would be included. The problem is, among other things, that 100 albums is much too short a list to mention all great albums.
I think the only way to ensure that Gentle Giant is in there would be to limit it - for example to albums of the 1970s, and to one album per artist.
It just so happens that the signature service at Progfreak.com provides a great way of demonstrating this. To the left there's my top rated prog albums, in the middle they're narrowed down to one per artist, to the right they're also narrowed down to the 1970s.
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The Hemulen
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 31 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5964
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 04:27 |
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It never ceases to amaze me how people can get so f**king worked up about a list. A list on the internet, no less.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 04:37 |
Trouserpress wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me how people can get so f**king worked up about a list. A list on the internet, no less.
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Yes, quite amazing. And I wonder if he even bothered to read my response, sorry to sound self centered but I think it's pretty obvious a kid who wants to get into prog will find the classics, even if they are not in a silly list. Not only from this site, but type in progressive rock and the big name bands and classics will come up first... Besides, the site should be changed just so some bands you like can stay in the top 100? They may be classics, even essentials but it is what it is! If the site gets changed so you can keep your albums in the top 100 I demand its then altered in a way to put every Opeth album in the top 100. Why not, I think they are deserving.
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BarryGlibb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 28 2010
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Status: Offline
Points: 1781
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 04:47 |
JJLehto wrote:
Trouserpress wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me how people can get so f**king worked up about a list. A list on the internet, no less.
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Yes, quite amazing.
And I wonder if he even bothered to read my response, sorry to sound self centered but I think it's pretty obvious a kid who wants to get into prog will find the classics, even if they are not in a silly list. Not only from this site, but type in progressive rock and the big name bands and classics will come up first...
Besides, the site should be changed just so some bands you like can stay in the top 100?
They may be classics, even essentials but it is what it is!
If the site gets changed so you can keep your albums in the top 100 I demand its then altered in a way to put every Opeth album in the top 100. Why not, I think they are deserving.
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Mr Trouserpress sir. "He" read your response.....and took note. I just didn't respond. All I'm doing is creating debate. I am not getting f**ing worked up about a list as has beeen suggested. All I'm saying is that albums are getting credit when 29 people have reviewed them as apposed > 300. I am not trying to creat a war here. Normally I'm a bit of a joker but I seemed to have touched a few nerves with this post. Which is good for democracy!
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BarryGlibb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 28 2010
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Status: Offline
Points: 1781
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 04:49 |
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The last post should have been to JJLehto. Sorry about that.
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member
Retired
Joined: March 04 2008
Location: Retirement Home
Status: Offline
Points: 3658
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 04:57 |
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Although Mount Everest is not visible from the Times Square in New York; does that means Mount Everest is a lesser mountain ?
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The slow demise of Gentle Giant in the top 100
