Jamming to prog Rock

I'm thinking if your drummer friend doesn't know what progressive rock is, it might not be relevant.  If improvisational ability and prog isn't in your blood, then there is probably no useful advice you can be given.  If you are jamming it has to be in your blood.  Jamming is an instinctual thing.


Edited by Slartibartfast - September 29 2010 at 18:56

Slartibartfast wrote: I'm thinking if your drummer friend doesn't know what progressive rock is, it might not be relevant.  If improvisational ability and prog isn't in your blood, then there is probably no useful advice you can be given.  If you are jamming it has to be in your blood.  Jamming is an instinctual thing.

I know.... But I wish there was more I could do to help train. Unfortunately, when I first got into playing guitar I was listening to a lot of Metallica. I regret that. Now all I do when I improvise with someone is play basic power chords, chug on the E string, and do a couple  arpeggio's down the A string in A minor. It sucks to admit it, and I really wish I could do more. JP is a great influence on me so I will occasionally... try... to solo. And do that high-speed alternate picking in whatever key I'm in on the E and B string... 80% of the time crash and burn. AT least I know what I'm doing WRONG. (everything). So what I'm really asking is... what is the best way to begin jamming to progressive rock. I have a couple Ideas, but anything you or anyone can think of that would make jamming sound prog?

edit: Sorry at the above wall of text


Edited by Mushroom Sword - September 29 2010 at 19:37

himtroy wrote: To start with move aways from E min and power chords.  Those two things are about as typical generic/non prog as music can get.  And don't just go for the fast alternate picking on the E and B string, try to actually give you're leads some emotion and melody.  Add layers, don't just play fast for the sake of it being a fast impressive guitar solo.

I understand. I love progressive Rock. That's what I want to do. And whatever I play... isn't prog. Except for maybe a couple riffs I've thought of sound so... Now, where do I go to? I know what to avoid, I'm sounding too much like... a crappy metallica cover. And I don't want to be anywhere near heavy metal. So what do I do to get the sound I'm looking for? That you all know and love. Of Closer to the Edge, Moving Pictures, In the Court of the Crimson King, simple Suspended 4 chords with a 67th, 7th, 9th, chord progression?

I'm just looking for something that will give me that undefined progressive sound. Techincal music theory precision, or just, "maybe try...". Thanks for the help so far. At least I know I'm not insane.

himtroy wrote: Well being limited with musicians doesn't help, it's hard to have the big prog sound without at least 3 people.  And while jamming can sound kind of progressive, it's going to have more of a progressive feel since prog rock like all the things you mentioned is heavily organised and not improviseded (except for obvious parts where it is improvised).  Try using more scales and chords than you're used to.  I'm really waiting for someone to come along who can help you much better than I can.

Lol, me too. Ask someone, "hey this dude needs some help that I think you can deal with".

But anyway, explain more on the "use more scales and chords then you're used to". Like, I really don't know how to explain what my guess is. Can you?

himtroy wrote: Are you knowledgable in theory?  Because experimenting with different types of chords rather than you're usual maj/min and using a wide variety of scales, like min raised seventh, whole tone scale, or other things helps get the weird kind of prog vibe going.  I could sit here and explain a scale to you, but really if you want to be into music as involved as prog rock I'd suggest educating yourself in theory as much as possible.

I already am. I said that in the OP. But, I study music theory with a passion. Though still in High school. I'd love to major in Musical Education from Berklee. But enough about me. But yes, I know very much about music theory and can easily adapt to any thing you (or whoever) can use to help with my current... dilemma.

himtroy wrote: Yes, sorry I'm failing at being very helpful.  And I recently finished high school and am tackling the majoring in music thing.

Well, hopefully you play prog. Or have your own prog sound. Right?

And why do you feel that it has a progressive feel? What makes it sound like that, how did you make it sound like that?

Edited by Mushroom Sword - September 29 2010 at 20:47

himtroy wrote: Well, to start with, if you listened to it do YOU think it has a progressive feel?  I feel that it does, as well as a very jam band kind of feel (we spent a lot of time doing psychedelic jams). Then to start of with it has a pretty nice set up, organ, guitar, drums, bass, synth, and sax (the organ and sax really helped).  Then theirs the structure, it changes keys some five times throughout, and the really psychedelic section is practically atonal.  And the intro is 7/8 and 4/4 alternating at different tempos, which settles into 6/8, then transitions into 4/4 again.   I think listening to prog long enough just eventually crept into my music writing, and there were obvious intentions of making it progressive.  And I just tried to write a melody that was not the norm, in fact it started as a composition for school.  Back then it was just the slow 6/8 part however, the one that takes place right after the crazy intro.   I'm trying to think of more things that may have contributed.

Ok thanks. I was messing around on my guitar... doing some different things. It's so weird... but just like that I'm playing differently, like It sounds... right. To me. Just messed around witha n electronic piano with a rock organ layerd on top of it... come up with this awesome solo... then copied it on guitar... Idk it was fun. But It's what I'm looking for. And if you could, explain what you meant by "use more scales". Like, go into different key signatures? Or saying get into music theory more. Anyway, thanks, for whatever motivation you gave... Now to find an odd time signature metronome.

I think methods are useless here.
You have to become able to let yourself go and play what you're thinking of. I know it sounds simplistic, but I think that's about it.
If, when you want to improvise, nothing comes to mind or you can't get something that satisfies you, you have to play alone some more...

When you improvise with other people, you go 50% "less far" technically than what you can do alone, because of rythmic and melodic restrictions. So you have to become veeeery comfortable improvising (like you want to) alone before being able to get what you want from a jam with other musicians (doesn't mean you shouldn't jam anyways...).
Once you're at that stage, you can start to interact with the other musicians more easily while doing something that pleases you.

I come from a similar place.  Whenever I improvise I find myself limited by nothing but myself.  I have found that the most helpful thing to help get my improvs to start sounding more prog is from writing and listening/learning bits from songs that I like.  Also I've found that when I learn something in theory I use it as much as possible for a little while after.  This usually results in fairly crappy sounding improvs, but eventually I start making it smoother until it actually sounds good.