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Gaston
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 26 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 401
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Topic: Bastardization! Posted: April 29 2004 at 20:23 |
So I was thinking and I decided to post a short rant.
The term "prog rock" is a bastardization of the term "progressive." Prog rock is no more progressive than any other music. It has no end point, therefore it is not progressing anywhere to reach a final output. From Merriam Webster:
Progress: A forward or onward movement (as to an objective or to a goal)
What goal? There is no movement from A to B; no fixed goals. There is only motion, so this term is severely overplayed.
Therefore, there is no such thing as progressive rock and all this music and all of you people are involved in a big sham!!!
jk
But, imo, it's just a term for the category. In fact, the term "prog" fits better than "progressive rock" because at least we understand that it is a label for the type of music, not that it really describes the music very well. Much like the label of "alternative rock." Alternative to what? The alternative is the mainstream! The labels become meaningless.
Discuss.
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It's the same guy. Great minds think alike.
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Stormcrow
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 05 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 400
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Posted: April 29 2004 at 20:32 |
As I noted in another thread, we tend to get too hung up on the word "progressive" when describing the genre.
I agree that for most instances, particularly when talking amongst the choir as we are, that "Prog Rock" suits the purpose just fine.
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12812
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Posted: April 30 2004 at 05:07 |
Originally in Britain, we did use "progressive" in its literal sense (from approx 1966 to about 1971), but it was co-joined by the word "music", as in "progressive music". But in those days there were comparatively few bands, and very little risk of musical overlap, so the the term "progressive music" sufficed - having said that, "underground music" (indicating the main fan base) would be used with equal relevance. Somebody tells me "Art Rock" came in soon after, but this term often reflected the musicians had gone to art college or university, and perhaps employed a few bars from the classical repertoise. (But the Kinks came under that heading). However, "Art Rock" would have as much relevance into Glam Rock as Prog Rock, because of the way bands like Roxy Music dressed.
I can assure you the earliest albums found in the section "Progressive Music" in my local record shop were Canned Heat's first two LPs and John Mayall's "Diary Of A Band" - and then we won't have argued, because that music "progressed" the blues into electric blues rock. Soon after the Moody Blues would gone in that section - but it didn't really expand much until Krimson and Renaissance's first releases. The only real debate then was: do we put the new electrified folk in that section or in the well established "Folk" section?
Most the sub-divisions of prog have often come about after the music itself, and these terms being made up by some pundits in the media, rather than the musicians themselves. One exception I've come across - Vanilla Fudge were calling their stuff "Symphonic Rock" around 65/66 - but I bet with tongues firmly in cheeks.
Edited by Dick Heath
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Marcelo
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 15 2004
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 310
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Posted: April 30 2004 at 18:10 |
I think that some names, terms, etc., have guide purposes. When you see "progressive rock" or "alternative rock", you know which is the type of music you'll find behind such title. But if you use just one term, people can be confused: Johann Sebastian Bach never did rock music, but he composed the first progressive music in human history. Would you put togheter Bach, ELP and Radiohead?
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Fitzcarraldo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1835
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Posted: April 30 2004 at 18:12 |
Dick explains it well. "prog(ressive) rock" is an anachronism, but I can't think of another term that would do the job as well. When I come across the term I know more or less what it's referring to, although I still have some trouble getting to grips with the term 'progressive metal', which to me is almost a contradiction in terms.
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Aztech
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 11 2004
Location: Montreal
Status: Offline
Points: 112
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Posted: May 05 2004 at 13:20 |
"Progressive" has always meant for me : "to progress to some other state" ie: "change" , meaning that its not the basic Verse / chorus structure of the standard 3 minute pop songs.
So Progressive Rock is Rock music, that changes more often than standard Rock forms. I know there is more to Prog Rock than just "many changes" but its my starting point to define the type.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28029
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Posted: May 05 2004 at 14:34 |
So what's 'Neo Prog' then?
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12812
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Posted: May 05 2004 at 18:06 |
Using the word "progressive" in its literal sense, could mean that many
of the major prog bands should be turfed out of the pigeonhole when
they stopped progressing (and there's a controversial new thread: name
those albums by the original prog bands which don't progress, and
the band have reached a complacent steady state....... or move on to
stadium rock).
"Neo" to take it Greek root means new - but more often as not, neo-prog
meant a band doing something similar to what an earlier band did
- only Pallas ever struck me as having a really original sound ,
but I enjoyed the earlier Marillion albums and most of It Bites. Both
Fish and Francis Dunnery sounded Peter Gabriel-like at times.
It is clear what is prog to somebody, may just as likely be for example
modern (electric) folk to somebody else (e.g. Roy Harper, John Martyn)
- prog has become extreme elastic, especially amongst those who
don't follow roots to all obvious points.
So when did some psychedelia and some garage and some blues rock
become prog, while the same bases also became heavy metal
(Vanilla Fudge caused Jeff Beck to go heavy so proceeding on to Led
Zeppelin, and clearly inspired Nice...) and some AOR? Look at Spirit,
latterday West Coast psychedelia band who in 1971 released "12 Dreams
Of Doctor Sardonicius"; this album could have easily been one of
the earliest US prog albums but instead the band stayed psychedelia -
maybe progressive rock hadn't reached California by
then....................
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semismart
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 05 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 139
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Posted: May 06 2004 at 00:22 |
Maybe Progressive means music that has progressed to a point to be too good to play on top forty or other mainstream radio stations.
Or better yet, how about the music of choice of progressive minded individuals.
Yeah, I think I fit that one
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