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Direct Link To This Post Topic: The VDGG/Peter Hammill Appreciation Thread
    Posted: August 13 2009 at 09:17
Van Der Graaf Generator is really one of the most unique bands ever. I can't think of a single band that has a sound like them. As the appreciation threads are popping out of the ground like shrooms I think VDGG does also really deserve one. As Peter Hammill's solo carreer has many similarities with Van Der Graaf Generator, I decided to include him in this appreciation thread too. 

My own experience with Van Der Graaf Generator is a very good one. There is no band that touches me like VDGG, especcially Pawn Hearts does. That album to me is more than perfect; the powerful and dark Lemmings, the calmth and at the same time haunting rawness of Man-Erg, and of course Plague Of Lighthouse Keepers, probably the most emotional song that I know. At this moment I'm listening to the album once again, and so many different moments make me shiver, it's fantastic. 

Just like all the other band appreciation threads, here you can share your thoughts about VDGG and Peter Hammill. Share your experiences with the band, your favorite albums or songs... anything. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2009 at 09:45
I first heard Pawn Hearts some thirty years ago and fell in love immediately. The seasons have rolled on, and my love has stayed strong.

I think Godbluff is just as good, and Still Life isn’t far behind. An album which is seldom mentioned is The Quiet Zone/The Pleasure Dome. It’s very diffent from the rest of their output, and personally I would rate it 5 stars.

As for Hammill solo, he’s more uneven. I love some of his old albums, like Chameleon, The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage and In Camera. Also the slightly newer ones, like A Black Box, Enter K and Patience, are excellent. I lost track of him in the 90s, and he’s made a lot of albums I’ve never heard, I’m afraid. I know, I really must get a copy of The Fall of the House of Usher. It’s supposed to be one of his best.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2009 at 09:48
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Hammil is one of my favorite artists too; I have been to a lot of his concerts and to two of VdGG too, their reunion gig in London on May 6th 2005 and a gig in Leverkusen from the same time. the Leverkusen gig was broadcast on TV, and of course we recorded it, and of course we all know their reunion gig was recorded too, so both VdGG gigs I have been to exist in officially recorded form Smile.
Friede has been to even more Hammill concerts than I, simply because Hammill never came anywhere near me while I still lived in the USA, but he came to Bochum, Cologne and Bonn several times during that time, and both Bochum and Bonn are not far from Cologne (less than 60 miles) where we live and where Friede has been living for most of her life, so Friede had a lot of occasions to see him. there is only one Hammill concert which she has a bad memory about (a very bad one even), but that has nothing to do with the concert itself but with something that happened afterwards


Edited by BaldJean - August 13 2009 at 09:50


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2009 at 12:00
Originally posted by floydispink floydispink wrote:

Van Der Graaf Generator is really one of the most unique bands ever. I can't think of a single band that has a sound like them. As the appreciation threads are popping out of the ground like shrooms I think VDGG does also really deserve one. As Peter Hammill's solo carreer has many similarities with Van Der Graaf Generator, I decided to include him in this appreciation thread too. ,.....
 
This is so strange for me ... I came from a highly educated literary family, and ... to me there is not a single album of music that I have ever heard, or bought, or takled about ... that is a "band" ... it is either a work of art, and what it means and entails ... or it's just pop music ... and that is the end of the conversation, isn't it?
 
PH/VDGG has never been about ... "a band" ... to my ear, it has been one long continuous expression in an emotional style that is a lot closer to literature and poetry, than it EVER will be to a "band" or "rock'n'roll", or "prog", or any other deviate or bizarre definition that anyone can give it.
 
For any of these works, including the ones by the so many "prog" artists that we love ... to progress and get better known, we have to elevate our respect for their art form ... and I am not sure that "band" defines the art form ... or is the actual work ... I suppose that the combination of the people can create something special, but if the work was that important to the musicians at hand, it would not be an issue ... the art is more important than the band.
 
What scares me, is that there are times when I think that we are lowering the standards, and I dare any musico, for example, to talk to me about some element in music ... that is not being done with rock instruments by someone ... and even better and on a stronger context.
 
When it comes to lyricos (what I call poets and writers), it is a different ball game ... they are not always great singers, but the honesty of the expressions ... is hard to discuss, they come off strong, and powerful and with Peter Hammill even the screaming at times will scare listeners off ... but that means they really missed the point ... sure they did, they were looking for a sexy fantasy instead with sweet lipsticked eyes?  ... not music or poetry ... see the difference?
 
It's a tough, weird ... place ... just like my post the other day when someone was surprised about Leonard Cohen ... and he's been doing it for 50 years, and he is not the only one ... Peter for 40 ... and there are many others out there ... and it is a matter of us "finding them" and "connecting" to their expression ... that's what an artist does ....  and you know why? ... because that person could only conceive of a "band" ... not an "artist", or have any conceptual thought or understanding of what that meant ...  and that is sad ... there is a lot of "literature" out there ... a hell of a lot!
 
To me the Beatles are not a "band" ... they are an artistic institution that deserve the literary credit for their work ... and the same goes for PH/VDGG and Amon Duul 2 and Tangerine Dream, and Klaus Schulze and Vangelis and Mike Oldfield ...  ... and so many others ... if all they were was a band ... I doubt that many people would give a bother ... and that is why a lot of higher educated institutions are not giving a hoot about a lot of music ... because we are not helping elevate the art form ...
 
It's not a band ... never was!


Edited by moshkito - August 13 2009 at 12:06
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2009 at 12:36
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

This is so strange for me ... I came from a highly educated literary family, and ... to me there is not a single album of music that I have ever heard, or bought, or takled about ... that is a "band" ... it is either a work of art, and what it means and entails

Of course it is a piece of art, but this piece of art is made by someone or a group of people. If the people that made the piece of music, the band, are a bunch of uncreative people trying to make as much money as possible out of their album. The album will probably be focused on the mainstream, and the majority of the people who only listen to the "cool" music don't really care about how poetic the lyrics are at all. So why should this band create something special? The result will be a very "shallow" album. I can't consider that a piece of artistic expression at all. 

Now, if the group of people that are in a band do want to express their emotions whether their audience will like it or not, of course it should be called a piece of art, as it is... that can't be denied. VDGG/Peter Hammill is a very good example of this I think. 

 ... or it's just pop music ... and that is the end of the conversation, isn't it?

 PH/VDGG has never been about ... "a band" ... to my ear, it has been one long continuous expression in an emotional style that is a lot closer to literature and poetry, than it EVER will be to a "band" or "rock'n'roll", or "prog", or any other deviate or bizarre definition that anyone can give it.

VDGG/Peter Hammill indeed might be more about the expression and lyrics than most bands. In fact, without the lyrics and Peter's very emotional vocals I'm sure VDGG would be much less interesting. In the end though, it still is music I think. One could enjoy the music without even knowing the lyrics, I'm sure of that. Of course, knowing the lyrics and the meaning of the songs really adds another dimension to their music, and makes it an even more emotional experience. 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2009 at 13:11
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Thumbs Up
Hammil is one of my favorite artists too; I have been to a lot of his concerts and to two of VdGG too, their reunion gig in London on May 6th 2005 and a gig in Leverkusen from the same time. the Leverkusen gig was broadcast on TV, and of course we recorded it, and of course we all know their reunion gig was recorded too, so both VdGG gigs I have been to exist in officially recorded form Smile.
Friede has been to even more Hammill concerts than I, simply because Hammill never came anywhere near me while I still lived in the USA, but he came to Bochum, Cologne and Bonn several times during that time, and both Bochum and Bonn are not far from Cologne (less than 60 miles) where we live and where Friede has been living for most of her life, so Friede had a lot of occasions to see him. there is only one Hammill concert which she has a bad memory about (a very bad one even), but that has nothing to do with the concert itself but with something that happened afterwards

That sounds great. I'd love to see VDGG or Peter Hammill live. I haven't been into them long enough to witness a live performance though. If I'll ever get the oppertunity to see them live, I won't miss it. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2009 at 13:18
VDGG are, indeed, unique, and, alongside King Crimson, are the only band that I have listened to for many years that I never got to see live, and, in both cases, probably now never will, which is a real shame.

The first taste of VDGG I had was The Wave, and it remains one of my favourite all time tracks. I also love a lot of Hamill's solo stuff, whilst remaining quite frustrated by a lot of the more pointless noodling that was prevalent on a lot of their work.

Both inspirational and exasperating at the same time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2009 at 14:03
VDGG is really one of the bands I enjoy the most. It is, as you said, really unique. I saw them a month ago, and it was an amazing concert, I was totally impressed. The only thing is that it was quite short (one hour and fifteen minutes). They played Man-Erg and Childlike Faith in Childhood's End Big smileClap
My favourite album of them is either Pawn Hearts or Godbluff.
By the way, you said that you can't think of a single band that sounds like them; I think you might be interested in another great band: Gnidrolog. They sound a bit like VDGG, I think. Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2009 at 14:13
Originally posted by Tsevir Leirbag Tsevir Leirbag wrote:

VDGG is really one of the bands I enjoy the most. It is, as you said, really unique. I saw them a month ago, and it was an amazing concert, I was totally impressed. The only thing is that it was quite short (one hour and fifteen minutes). They played Man-Erg and Childlike Faith in Childhood's End Big smileClap
My favourite album of them is either Pawn Hearts or Godbluff.
By the way, you said that you can't think of a single band that sounds like them; I think you might be interested in another great band: Gnidrolog. They sound a bit like VDGG, I think. Smile

I have recently discovered Gnidrolog, actually. So far I've only listened to some of their songs on Youtube (my way to find out what's the sound of bands), but I really like it and I'll definitely will check out more of them. There might be some similairities between the two, but PH's vocals can't be compared with anything I think. Also, their music seems to be a bit more "clean" than VDGG's music. Excuse me if I'm wrong about that. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2009 at 15:38
I have to add a few things:

PH’s album Everyone You Hold (1997) is very precious to me, and Bubble, with a different arrangement, could have been a full-blown VdGG-song, with some brilliant (though rather creepy) organ work by the great Hugh Banton.

I’ve never seen VdGG live (still I hope to do it one day), but I’ve seen PH twice in Oslo. In the first concert he played together with the eminent guitarist John Ellis (Enter K must have been very fresh at the time). They both did an excellent job, but there were some obnoxious drunk people there who wanted to enter, not K, but the stage. PH was really pissed offed. I’m quite sure that was the reason why they decided to end the show with Happy Hour. LOLClap

Luckily he came back the next year, this time to play alone at the legendary Club 7 (don’t try to find it‚ it’s gone years ago). Completely magical. He went back to the very start of his carreer, playing songs like Vision and Afterwords, and towards the end, beginning with the short introduction, "this is my major effort", he performed Flight alone on the piano. Another highlight was the last encore (3rd? 4th? I don’t remember, and it hardly seems to matter now). He went back on stage with a beer and a cigarette (he used to smoke before his heart attack, you know), he (obviously remembering the concert the previous year) thanked us for behaving in a way that allowed him to do his best. Then he asked us what we wanted to hear. A friend of mine said Refugees, and PH politely answered that he hadn’t played it for a very long time. Then another one asked for Still Life, and Still Life it was. I assure you, the music, the performance and the presence of PH were much more intoxicating than the alcohol.

I’m happy that he’s still alive, that VdGG made their comeback, and that I’m still alive to enjoy it!

(Sorry for all the brackets.)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2009 at 15:52
It took me a long time to appreciate VdGG, and I've only really been a "fan" for a year or so.  I'm still in the process of buying up all the stuff.  I think I have all but one of the VdGG albums ("World Record"), and I have all the Hammill solo albums through the early 80s (except Fool's Mate).
 
I'd say they're definitely an acquired taste.  The music doesn't really offer any overt displays of showmanship or grandstanding, and Hammill's voice is a turn-off for many (I don't understand that; it was always and still is my favorite part).  But their pieces work excellently as mini-epic snapshots of madness and confusion, where the lyrics and music complement each other.
 
I actually only became a convert when I decided to get acquainted with the Hammill solo stuff first.  There I "got to know him" a little better, and it allowed me to appreciate the VdGG stuff better.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2009 at 23:28
I'm just listening to Thin Air for the first time.

Ooooh, this will take a while to full sink in.  I like it though.  Hammill lyrics usually take a while for me to fully devour.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2009 at 19:00
My favorite Prog band! never hade any problem with em, they clicked right away and i knew from the start that they whuld be my new #1 band. Hammill is a true musical genius. Thumbs Up
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 13:22
I just read a review of Godbluff where the reviewer pointed out the use of clavinet on this record. I really haven't paid any attention to that before, but when I do now, it sure is a very important part of the dark, menacing atmosphere of the album. What would e.g. "Scorched Earth" be without the dark, hammering, almost guitar-like clavinet rhythms? Or the chorus of "Arrow" with the slamming powerchords? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 13:52
Originally posted by AtlantisAgony AtlantisAgony wrote:

I just read a review of Godbluff where the reviewer pointed out the use of clavinet on this record. I really haven't paid any attention to that before, but when I do now, it sure is a very important part of the dark, menacing atmosphere of the album. What would e.g. "Scorched Earth" be without the dark, hammering, almost guitar-like clavinet rhythms? Or the chorus of "Arrow" with the slamming powerchords? 

I agree, the intro of Scorched Earth really is extremely bombastic and powerful, it would be a whole different thing if the clavinet was replaced by the organ for example. It is really powerful this way. I believe Godbluff is more bombastic than any other VDGG album, not just because the use of clavinet, that's relatively  of small importance IMO. What really makes Godbluff so powerful is that all the band members seem to make more "raw" sounds than ever before. For example Hammill's vocals, they are very rough, take for example Arrow... Hammill really sounds incredibly frightening at some moments. 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 21:33
Funny this should come up, I just posted a review of Still Life on the site.

Pawn Hearts is an incredible album and is probably among my top 10 of all time. Not necessarily the first thing I would show to a prog newbie though Wink

Still Life I'm not as big on, it was good but nowhere near the same level. I confess, however, to not owning Godbluff yet. I know, I know, take me out and stone me, but I've been meaning to ask: Given that I enjoy Pawn Hearts far more than I enjoy Still Life, which VDGG album should I pick up next, H to He or Godbluff?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 21:40
Originally posted by floydispink floydispink wrote:

Originally posted by Tsevir Leirbag Tsevir Leirbag wrote:

VDGG is really one of the bands I enjoy the most. It is, as you said, really unique. I saw them a month ago, and it was an amazing concert, I was totally impressed. The only thing is that it was quite short (one hour and fifteen minutes). They played Man-Erg and Childlike Faith in Childhood's End Big smileClap
My favourite album of them is either Pawn Hearts or Godbluff.
By the way, you said that you can't think of a single band that sounds like them; I think you might be interested in another great band: Gnidrolog. They sound a bit like VDGG, I think. Smile

I have recently discovered Gnidrolog, actually. So far I've only listened to some of their songs on Youtube (my way to find out what's the sound of bands), but I really like it and I'll definitely will check out more of them. There might be some similairities between the two, but PH's vocals can't be compared with anything I think. Also, their music seems to be a bit more "clean" than VDGG's music. Excuse me if I'm wrong about that. 
 
Yeah you're probably right...
BUT, I forgot to mention Discipline; it is REALLY influenced by VDGG, and there AND similarities between Hammill and Parmenter's voices. That might interest you (again).
 
Originally posted by KingCrimson250 KingCrimson250 wrote:

Funny this should come up, I just posted a review of Still Life on the site.

Pawn Hearts is an incredible album and is probably among my top 10 of all time. Not necessarily the first thing I would show to a prog newbie though Wink

Still Life I'm not as big on, it was good but nowhere near the same level. I confess, however, to not owning Godbluff yet. I know, I know, take me out and stone me, but I've been meaning to ask: Given that I enjoy Pawn Hearts far more than I enjoy Still Life, which VDGG album should I pick up next, H to He or Godbluff?
 
GODBLUFF! Clap


Edited by Tsevir Leirbag - August 16 2009 at 21:41
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2009 at 15:18
Originally posted by KingCrimson250 KingCrimson250 wrote:

Given that I enjoy Pawn Hearts far more than I enjoy Still Life, which VDGG album should I pick up next, H to He or Godbluff?
I reckon H to He would be more to your liking. The albums after Pawn Hearts are really good albums but they don't have the sense of controlled chaos I get from the earlier ones.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2009 at 16:09
Originally posted by A B Negative A B Negative wrote:

Originally posted by KingCrimson250 KingCrimson250 wrote:

Given that I enjoy Pawn Hearts far more than I enjoy Still Life, which VDGG album should I pick up next, H to He or Godbluff?
I reckon H to He would be more to your liking. The albums after Pawn Hearts are really good albums but they don't have the sense of controlled chaos I get from the earlier ones.

I agree with H to He being more like Pawn Hearts than Godbluff is, but I think Godbluff also is full of controlled chaos. Peter's vocals on The Undercover Man, the lunacy of Sleepwalkers and much more. I'd say, get both!Wink If you don't have enough money or for whatever reason that won't be an option I recommend H to He.

Another suggestion, if you haven't heard them already, you could also try Peter Hammill's Chameleon In The Shadow Of The Night, The Silent Corner And The Empty Stage and In Camera. Those albums are more like Pawn Hearts than H to He or any other VDGG album is IMO. The controlled chaos of Pawn Hearts is also very present here, Gog from In Camera is one of the most disturbing and haunting pieces of music I've ever heard. 


Edited by floydispink - August 18 2009 at 16:18
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2009 at 16:24
Originally posted by floydispink floydispink wrote:

Originally posted by A B Negative A B Negative wrote:

Originally posted by KingCrimson250 KingCrimson250 wrote:

Given that I enjoy Pawn Hearts far more than I enjoy Still Life, which VDGG album should I pick up next, H to He or Godbluff?
I reckon H to He would be more to your liking. The albums after Pawn Hearts are really good albums but they don't have the sense of controlled chaos I get from the earlier ones.

I agree with H to He being more like Pawn Hearts than Godbluff is, but I think Godbluff also is full of controlled chaos. Peter's vocals on The Undercover Man, the lunacy of Sleepwalkers and much more. I'd say, get both!Wink If you don't have enough money or for whatever reason that won't be an option I recommend H to He.
There's chaos in Godbluff but the band is tightly in control of where they want that chaos to go. In the earlier albums there are places where they're holding on for dear life and only just keeping hold of their sanity. That's what I prefer! Big smile


Edited by A B Negative - August 18 2009 at 16:26
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