Jack Bruce |
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Topic: Jack Bruce Posted: October 18 2008 at 11:38 |
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Jack Bruce has been proposed to J-R team for inclusion.. a no brainer addition.. hell.. he's on the most catholic prog site of all .. GEPR. so about time we get him here.
So a thread to share your thoughts.... if you were aware he didn't disappear after Cream and has had one hell of a solo career |
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: October 18 2008 at 12:15 | |
hmmm... a thread I suspect that is not going to get a lot of responses...
for the tags and labellers out there... a nice review of 'Things we Like' to chew on.. "Things We Like" is a critical album in understanding the development of jazz rock fusion, not necessarily for it's combination of acoustic jazz and electric rock (it doesn't) but more for the freedom of playing that it allows the musicians. It has an innocence shared by similar landmark albums like Chick Corea's "Tones For Jones Bones", McLaughlin/Surman's "Where Fortune Smiles", and especially Miroslav Vitous' "Infinite Search" and "Purple". McLaughlin is definitely touting a freeform freedom he would further explore in moving to Germany by November of that year to play with Gunter Hampel, and hints of his upcoming soloing genius on "Extrapolation", but he is also happy to take a back seat and provide that amazingly chunky comping like no other. Heckstall-Smith remembers McLaughlin turned up to Bruce's sessions after running into each other at Pete Brown's pad. John just joined in without rehearsal." Bruce remembers it differently, that he saw McLaughlin skulking along, low after a sessionman gig for Decca, broke and with not enough money to get him to the US where Tony Williams was waiting for him to form Lifetime. This album gave him that financial opportunity. Whatever the circumstance, this was a journeyman already in search of a bigger meaning, pleased to learn from all contexts. Charles Mingus was supposed to be a major influence for the album's style, but followers of Ornette Coleman will definitely hear parallels, especially when Heckstall-Smith blows brass and woodwind simultaneously. Bruce's acoustic basslines have that Charlie Haden upturned finish too, quite unlike his electric playing. It is time-signature, pulsating modern post bebop at its best. Rarely ponderous, it gets down to the job fast and keeps the pace alive, lending most soloing space to sax, some exposure for guitar, little for the rhythm section. It's tight and mighty. However, the album was not a popular one. Firstly it was an in-your-face-as-far-as-you-can-get-away-as-possible-from-the-soon-to-be-disbanded-supergroup-Cream (it was recorded in August just before the Cream Farewell Tour of 22 shows at 19 venues in the United States between October 4 and November 4, 1968, and two final farewell concerts at the Royal Albert Hall on November 26, 1968). Even the album's title seems to make a statement about Bruce's preferred musical avenue over rock, and an attitude that some fans who may blame Bruce for the break up of Cream, consider salt in the wound. Or you could make the effort to find out the facts ("Things We Like" was the title of a grade school textbook Jack used as a boy), or you could read the title simply as an expression of joy to be among fellow-minded jazzers, old friends from the session underground, Soho pubs and London club scene, who have gathered to realise one of Jack's dreams of recording his long-penned (since age 11!) pieces that Cream could never have played like they needed to be played. He was afterall just going back to what he used to do before Cream. And thank goodness for his strength of character, rather than selling out to the temptation of repeating the rock success, he refused the money and concentrated on songwriting to produce "Songs For A Tailor" an amazing showcase of his melodic lyrical playing and singing style. This is not an essay on Bruce's career, so suffice to note that his and John McLaughlin's paths soon crossed again in Tony William's Lifetime and on "Escalator Over The Hill", but thank goodness they had this outing. Wonderfully exciting, memorable tunes that point to jazz's future paths like the other landmark exploratory albums of the time. By building on the old-world legacy, incredibly and minutely. |
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Raff
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: October 18 2008 at 12:35 | |
Incidentally, I've just put on Colosseum's third studio album, Daughter of Time, which features a song by Jack Bruce, "Tales from an Imaginary Western" (another one, "Rope Ladder to the Moon", was included on Valentyne Suite). The late, great Dick Heckstall-Smith was, of course, a founding member of Colosseum.
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12817 |
Posted: October 18 2008 at 14:29 | |
And don't forget Bruce had played with McLaughlin, probably briefly in 1964-5 in Graham Bond's Organisation; apparently Organisation's drummer Ginger Baker fired McLaughlin (doing Bond's dirty jobs). That didn't stop Bruce Baker and McLaughlin backing a little time later ex rock'n'roller turned R'nB vocalist/harp-player Duffy Power on a several recordings. Bruce appeared with McLaughlin and Tony Williams on the former's Electric Guitarist. It is also possible Bruce introduced Allan Holdsworth to Tony Williams - there is a missing-link (i.e. between two classic Lifetime line-ups) bootleg of Williams, Holdsworth & Bruce recorded in Stockholm called Wildlife. Then those legendary Sherwood Tapes demos by Holdsworth Bruce and Hiseman. A lot of inter-relationships here, reinforcing the concept that Jack is and has long been one of the great rock innovators - vocalist, player, composer, improvisor since the early 60's. And don't get me started on the Michael Mantler and Kip Hanrahan collaborations/recordings of the 80's and those very individual CMP Records recordings of the 90's......
There is much there of relevance wrt biography, JackBruce's life story here should be long one. Edited by Dick Heath - October 18 2008 at 14:33 |
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febus
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: January 23 2007 Location: Orlando-Usa Status: Offline Points: 4312 |
Posted: October 18 2008 at 14:43 | |
I don't know about that! ...
''Things we like'' is a JAZZ album to my ears and the rest of his solo output,( i have 4 of his albums), I never thought of any prog connection when i listen to them .
I listen to HARMONY ROW, OUT OF THE STORM and HOW'S TRICKS regularly once in a while, i like them. but prog?/ not even prog related to me......but that's just me!!
However, he should be placed on a pedestal if there is any Rock archives.com. Edited by febus - October 19 2008 at 21:50 |
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12817 |
Posted: October 18 2008 at 15:02 | |
Made at the height of some great British jazz experimentation at the end of the 60's - wasn't there ~2 years delay between recording Things and its release date? BTW does the recording date chronology go: Experiments with Pops (Gordon Beck with "Johnny" McLaughlin) Extrapolation (McLaughlin with John Surman) Things We Like (Bruce with McLaughlin) Way Back When : (John Surman ) Where Fortune Smiles (McLaughlin, Surman etc. - Brits in a NYC recording studio, I think) And I've not touched on Ian Carr (pe-Nucleus)/Don Rendell and Mike Westbrook's (with Surman in his band) impact at around the same time. British jazz rock was to in part come from these directions |
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CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
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jammun
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 14 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3449 |
Posted: October 18 2008 at 16:40 | |
Wow, Jack Bruce! I bought Songs for a Tailor when it came out. Excellent album, which as mentioned above contains the great Theme for an Imaginary Western, which was covered excellently by Mountain, on Mountain Climbing I think. I then bought Things We Like, which was quite obtuse to my 16/17-year-old mind, but it certainly prepared me to be accepting of McLaughlin's Extrapolation.
Somewhere around here I have a copy of Live at the Manchester Free Trade Hall, with Carla Bley and Mick Taylor, which has stuff from Songs... and Harmony Row on it.
All in all I think he's a deserving addition, though I'm not sure where he belongs, categorically speaking.
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Angelo
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
Posted: October 18 2008 at 17:01 | |
Just read that he's playing a gig in our neighbourhood end of february next year. I'll be there for sure. Thanks to Dick H. I fell in love with the album This That, by the brilliant gang of Dick Heckstall-Smith - Jack Bruce - John Stevens...
As for the site: if Bruces proposed for J-R I'll rely on the judgement of the J-R team, since I know too little of Bruce's post Cream career. As a bass player, I should be ashamed... |
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 26 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 3577 |
Posted: October 19 2008 at 15:04 | |
Goods albums make old Jack, i strongly support his addition
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Eetu Pellonpaa
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 17 2005 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 4828 |
Posted: October 20 2008 at 10:00 | |
I have Jack's "Deserted Cities of The Heart" double CD live, which was recorded in the 90's I recall. Quite good album, there's lot's of really jazzy stuff goin' on within a rock context. Some songs are not highly experimental, but anyway his stuff doesn't sound that it would have been done to please the markets. An obvious reason for his works not being so widely known.
Hmm, quite silly reply as I can't truly form a clear opinion about the inclusion decision, but I couldn't resist writing. Maybe I thoguht I might get a recommendation of his albums on basis of liking the mentioned live album?
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: October 31 2008 at 05:19 | |
Jack Bruce has been approved for J-R/F. and will be working on the addition. Will take some time to do a bio that fits the artist. Hopefully will have him added in a week or so. Will try to get it this weekend since my weeks are pretty much shot to hell.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20363 |
Posted: October 31 2008 at 05:38 | |
a clear resounding Yes for me, although this will defintely open the door for Cream
I also asked about Jack Bruce's lyricist Pete Brown in the collab zone....
if i could have some input......
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: October 31 2008 at 05:59 | |
I'll check where you asked about Pete Brown Hugues.. missed that..
and re: Cream. NO NO and NO again... that the danger if X then Y. read the above review of 'Things we Like' not to mention the liner notes to Songs for a Tailor. Cream and JB were two completely different musical entities. His solo career was an exploration of HIS musical love... jazz. Cream has no place here IMO. Progressive rock was a reaction against... exactly that kind of music. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20363 |
Posted: October 31 2008 at 09:08 | |
Let's not forget Bruce's appearan,ce in Soft Machine (Land Of Cockayne) and in Tony Williaùs' Lifetimùe as well.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12817 |
Posted: October 31 2008 at 10:24 | |
Indeed in part the confidence rock musicians gain from the likes of Cream's ability to jam and display virtuosity, the ability to improv like jazz musicians, contributed moving from 3 minute pop songs, to compositions/arrangements that could hold together for a side of an LP. BTW I'm not saying that blues was the major component rather an equal component. e.g. Listening to Jefferson Airplane's Bless Its Pointed Little Head recently, and reminded you get the blues biassed Casidy and Kaukonen infusing the psychedelia of the rest of the band, on longish jams. Edited by Dick Heath - October 31 2008 at 10:38 |
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The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12817 |
Posted: October 31 2008 at 11:14 | |
Pete Brown could stand by himself - several albums issued by Harvest Records, under the names Pete Brown and Pibokto or Pete Brown & The Battered Ornaments. Heckstall-Smith and Spedding passed through these bands. BTW there is a whacky version of Bruce-Brown's Politician on one album (Things May Come.....?) which owes very little to the blues. On his blog, Sid Smith reviewed a compilation of his music issued by Harvest a few years ago:
Brown also pulled together a host of international blues players for a tribute album he produced: Rattlesnake Guitar: The Music Of Peter Green. This album has some importance being the last recordings done by Rory Gallagher, and Harvey Mandell contributed on a couple of tracks.
Edited by Dick Heath - October 31 2008 at 11:18 |
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The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 26 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 3577 |
Posted: October 31 2008 at 14:27 | |
Yes i agreed with that, prog rock was NOT a reaction to the music of Cream, Blues always have been a part of Prog Rock, This Was, first JT album was launched in the shadow of Cream succes.
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 26 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 3577 |
Posted: October 31 2008 at 14:29 | |
Dick and no forget Piblotko and Battered Ornaments, group in when Pete collaborate.
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: October 31 2008 at 18:18 | |
sh*t... I know better than to argue with you.. so I won't I was a glint in my damned parents eye and you were there hahahha. Which is why I take your word as the frickin gospel man...
however.....I do love learning.. and listening..and a good discussion...so.... I type away with my thoughts. tell me if I am full of sh*t..
I couldn't agree more with the rest... and if we are to recognize that as being prog... I sure as hell wouldn't have a problem with it. I have had to fight off the impulse to call for The Allman Brothers to be here. Raff tells me all the time I should suggest them. If the bar is adjusted to that level. They, my ALLTIME favorite group.. is a shoe in here It is not exactly how I see prog... my mantra.. prog is art.... auditory art.. .there is an artistic asethtic to it.. not just about improv.. great solos or lengthy compositions... but it was about rock made BY well off, well educated English musicians in that day for audiences that were the same. My two cents my friend... curious as to what you think. I don't think they ... Cream, Hendrix or the Yardbirds...belong here... but who the hell am I. Just an asshole with an opinion hahahha cheers Richard.. and I'll be working on a JB bio this weekend and throwing it your way to have you look at it. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20363 |
Posted: November 03 2008 at 12:13 | |
^^^^^^^^^^^^ Lynyrd on PA, if ABB is in?????
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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