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Guzzman ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: August 21 2004 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 3563 |
![]() Posted: March 19 2008 at 07:06 |
For a couple of days now we hear about the uprisings/demonstrations in Tibet and how China is responding. Due to the violent strikes Chinese "security units" blow, a discussion has got on the way whether or not the Olympic Summer Games in Bejing should be boycotted. Please vote and tell us about your decision. Thanks.
In my opinion participants should show their solidarity and sympathy for the people of Tibet while taking part in the Games. There even might be a chance to bring the issue to the knowledge of some of the Chinese. Yes, I know that I'm a dreamer. |
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"We've got to get in to get out"
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Slartibartfast ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
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With all the air pollution in Beijing, some athletes might want to consider a boycott simply for health reasons.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Petrovsk Mizinski ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
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I can't even to vote on this. Every option is equally important to my mind.
We boycott, and the west stands to potentially lose economic ground with China. As an Australian at least, I can see the economic importance of China to Australia, and I would imagine it's not much different for the US and Canada.
We don't boycott, our weakness for standing against the Fulong Gong killings and the world in general will possibly view each other as less humanitarian.
The games are about sport and coming together as a world to celebrate sports, so it's of social and cultural significance too.
But as for not helping the people in Tibet, I disagree. How can a whole world of competing nations boycotting the games not have any impact on this?
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Norbert ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 20 2005 Location: Hungary Status: Offline Points: 2506 |
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The Olympic Games should not have been given to a bloody dictatorship.
The people of Tibet(and other minorites) and all opposition movements are brutally surpressed.
Mao 's regime is responsible for the death of at least 35-40 million people and the portray of Mao can be still seen on the central square of Beijing.
I don't want to say that the western democracies are close to perfection, they are actually very corrupted and materialistic but the maoist regime is one of the worst on Earth. Edited by Norbert - March 28 2008 at 11:22 |
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stonebeard ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
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China is destroying a culture of peace in the name of modernization. Forceful modernization. China is power-hungry, and seeks domination in the shrewdest and least sympathetic way. The only reason we let China get away with this sh!t is that our economy would get a righteous f**king-over. But what does it say for us when the wealth of our economy depends on another country?
I think China should be boycotted in every possible way. At least our figurehead of a leader should not dole out wimpy, half-assed comments about dissatisfaction or whatever about China. Have some balls for once in your life you yellow b*****d, Bush and condemn China for its awful actions. But then again, with you f**king over your own country and the world so much, that would reek of hypocrisy, wouldn't it? Edited by stonebeard - March 19 2008 at 11:27 |
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Raff ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
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My first reaction would be to choose the first option, but I am afraid this is a clear-cut case of locking the stable after the horse has bolted. Everyone in the West knows what China is like as regards human rights (including workers' rights) - nevertheless, they were given the Games, for obvious reasons of financial gain. Boycotting now would be, in my humble opinion, an act of hypocrisy, and not solve anything at all. We have all let China become more and more powerful, closing our eyes to everything that happened here... Unfortunately, I think there is very little to be done now, when they have us by the attributes in so many respects.
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bhikkhu ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 06 2006 Location: A² Michigan Status: Offline Points: 5109 |
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Every other country competing in the games should have a "Free Tibet" patch sewn to their uniforms.
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tuxon ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 21 2004 Location: plugged-in Status: Offline Points: 5502 |
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Personally I don't think a boycot will help, I suggest we make a fist and invade China, throw out that brute dictator and remove all the nuclear bombs they have.
BTW, while we are at it, why don't we boycot the USA for invading and forcefully opressing the people in Iraque, Afghanistan, and New York, same with Great Brittain, The Netherlands, Belgium, Canada, France and other countries involved in oppressing parts of the world.
I'm very much in favour of a free Tibet (not that it affects me in any way), but I think it's rather hypocritical to point the finger when you live in a Western society which supports western intrusion all over the world, and never in the places where it matters (Sudan, Erithrea, and where do we stand regarding Birma and stuff like that, as long as there's oil or other natural products or cheap labour to harvest).
Let's first pull back our troops where they don't belong and than we can tell other country's to do the same (lead by excample not by force). Edited by tuxon - March 19 2008 at 15:13 |
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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bhikkhu ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 06 2006 Location: A² Michigan Status: Offline Points: 5109 |
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tuxon ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 21 2004 Location: plugged-in Status: Offline Points: 5502 |
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Getting back on subject of China VS Tibet. I wonder if Tibet's claim is right, should they be independant, or are they as China claims an integral part of China.
The only time Tibet was remotly independant was between 1912 and 1949, but only because of English and Russian interventian with a severly weakend China, and in a period of big revolutions going on (WOI, Russian Revolution, WOII, end of British Ruling of the region etc.). Before that Tibet had been under Chinese ruling for a millenium. and between 1912 and 1949 Tibet wasstill under Chinese control for the most part (making the Tibetians unaware that they had been invaded in 1949 untill 1959 when the first upheaval started).
Another interesting point IMO is the fact that in early 20th century it was the imperialistic west who had a reason for weakening China (a formidable former worldpower at the time) by trying to force separation of Tibet from China and still today the largest support for the 'Tibet'' cause is from the west, and again China is becoming a world power and the support is on the Tibet side again.
Of course the Tibetans claim that they never where an integral part of China, and I guess they are right in that assertion (they claim the relation is more likely to be called a Priest-Patron type, the Tibetan Monks being the Priests and the Chinese empire their protector-friend, a situation that might have been true between 1200 and 1700).
Anyway, I don't know what to think of the situation (I have a Free tibet sticker on my wallet for ages now, and I still keep it, but I don't know if I should).
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Angelo ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
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Reality is obscured by perception, once again.... I think Gerald has a few good points here, neither Chinese or Westerners have clean hands. Giving China the games and then boycotting them is indeed an act of hypocrisy. Requiring our sportsmen and -women to boycott the games is equally so - why should these people give up their (Olympic sports) dream for us, who only look from a distance and give up nothing? They have had as much part in this as the Tibetans have asked for being treated as they are now.
I like the idea of participants showing solidarity with the Tibetans - regardless of whether they deserve or require independence, solely for the way China treats them. |
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bhikkhu ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 06 2006 Location: A² Michigan Status: Offline Points: 5109 |
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The biggest asset of having a free Tibet would be a country that is entirely devoted to peace. This is the Dalai Lama's vision for it. He hopes that by creating a center for peace, others would follow the example.
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Atkingani ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: October 21 2005 Location: Terra Brasilis Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
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Boycott would be terrible for the athletes and many more people... but to show solidarity will be fair and, peaceful. On the other hand, a nation that never existed (Kosovo) got its fake "independence" supported by many powers and why not Tibet has this right since it existed as a nation before. Stop the world, please, I want to get out. EDIT: when I mean "nation" I'm not thinking exclusively as Tibet being solely an independent country.
Edited by Atkingani - March 19 2008 at 18:51 |
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Guigo
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tuxon ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 21 2004 Location: plugged-in Status: Offline Points: 5502 |
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Lead by excample, excactly how i envision it, However it's an Utopic vision created by people outside of Tibet who have recreated their memory's of their native land as some garden of eden, a sanctuary of peace and whatever.
I think the Tibetians inside Tibet will be satisfied if they are left their religion and culture with as little as possible interference from strangers.
I do however always endorse good Utopian ideals, so let's make it happen.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Arrrghus ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: July 21 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5296 |
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I for one am glad the games are giving Tibet some much needed exposure. We have to realize, however, that the games are not about politics but for bringing people together. We still had the games in 1936 in Germany despite the rising evil everyone was cautious of. Think of all the hard work these hundreds of athletes have put in. Some people's lives are entirely devoted to these upcoming games; their life has simply been a preparation for this mass meeting of the world's premier athletes. These games need to remain a symbol of humanity.
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stonebeard ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
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I laughed out loud at that. ![]() |
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Philéas ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: June 14 2006 Status: Offline Points: 6419 |
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Third option.
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Sean Trane ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20399 |
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I couldn't care less about Olympic games
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Seoul (88) was the first games that really derailed the sports. They eliminbated Johnson but didn't check Carl Lewis who was also a doped athltetes. etc....
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Far away from me the idea of supporting China (I really don't
![]() Other buddhist absolute Monarchies like Bhutan, Sikkim (part of India) and some provincies of Nepal are not much better in terms of human rights as Tibet of the 40's or today's China.
While there was no genocide, one can draw comparison between China's invasion of Tibet with Vietnam's invasion of Kampuchea/Cambodia during the Pol Pot years; However Vietnam withdrew as quick as they could, something these arseholes in China are not willing to do.
I know it's very trendy to be buddhist in our western democracies, partly because it likes to define itself as a philosophy, rather than a religion (this is pure BS, of course, it's a religion just like others), but we should definitely look that the Tibet regime in exile as something else but saints.
BTW: the head of Olympics is Belgian Jacques Rogge and there is an all-important Tibetan institute in Belgium (Chateau Fontaine L'Eveque in Tihange/Huy), so you can't say that I'm biased after reading this post of mine
Edited by Sean Trane - March 28 2008 at 07:39 |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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IVNORD ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 13 2006 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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Oddly, I side with you on most accounts, though I have to point out that the Chinese did not improve things in Tibet. THey just overtook Tibet due to their imperial ambitions and expansionism, grabbed a big piece of real estate. Bringing freedom to the oppressed Tibetan people was a no-entry on the list of their intentions. The internal situation didn't change much.
The modern-time Olympics have been politicized long before '68. I would say since Helsinki (52) and Melbourne (56) when the Soviets began participating actively. Definetely since 1960, when they won gold in hockey in Skwo Valley and a few gold medals in Rome. But the pinnacle of hypocrisy the Olympic commettee reached in the late 60's and 70's when they excluded athletes from South Africa on the grounds of apartheid while screaming and yelling that the big sport should be free of politics.
Edited by IVNORD - March 28 2008 at 10:16 |
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IVNORD ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 13 2006 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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