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rileydog22 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: August 24 2005 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 8844 |
 Topic: Abolish Italian Symphonic Prog as a genrePosted: March 05 2008 at 22:18 |
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Stoney's idea of merging neo prog with symphonic is interesting, but he misses the genre which truly needs to be merged with symphonic: ISP. I checked the band list today and not a single band listed as ISP is from a country other than Italy. If Italian Symphonic Prog is defined by a distinctive sound, rather than just a nationality, how is it possible that this distinctive sound has never once been captured by a band from another nation?! The other regionally-defined genres, Kraut and Canterbury, each have numerous bands from nations other than the one in which the movement originated, yet ISP has never left the borders of Italy.
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heyitsthatguy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2006 Location: Washington Hgts Status: Offline Points: 10094 |
Posted: March 05 2008 at 22:21 |
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pizza pie
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65751 |
Posted: March 05 2008 at 22:48 |
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what is up with all this call to revolution stuff.. what's so threatening about a currently accepted genre of music?
http://www.italianprog.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_progressive_rock not to mention all the books by Paolo Barotto, Valentino Flesca and others ..I'm no expert on the genre but it is legit Edited by Atavachron - March 05 2008 at 22:50 |
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Dim
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: April 17 2007 Location: Austin TX Status: Offline Points: 6890 |
Posted: March 05 2008 at 22:58 |
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Weak reasoning.
I have only heard a handful of ISP bands, most of which PFM, and I must say, they sound very different from the classic symphonic stuff. Really comparing bands like Genesis, and Yes, to PFM, or Banco is ridiculus. Also if we were to merge the two genres that would just create...
a) Even more diversity in the already in the overdiverse symph category
b) Add even more bands to the extremely over flooded genre, especially if we do decide to get rid of Neo. Edited by schizoid_man77 - March 05 2008 at 22:59 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: March 05 2008 at 23:07 |
Not an over flooded genre, we can deal with more bands and we have plans for Symphonic.
Neo Prog is not going. Neo Prog is an independent sub-genre
Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - March 05 2008 at 23:10 |
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ClassicRocker
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 894 |
Posted: March 05 2008 at 23:45 |
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Italian Symphonic Prog is redundant when juxtaposing it to "non-Italian" Symphonic Prog.
IMO, either it should be absorbed into "regular" Symphonic, or if that isn't possible, at least change the name to "Italian Prog" or something if it is truly necessary to separate the "movement". |
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1800iareyay
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2492 |
Posted: March 05 2008 at 23:51 |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: March 06 2008 at 00:14 |
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What's with this "let's merge all related genres into one" trend? First Neo, now Italian...
Next thread: "Abolish post metal and extreme/tech metal and merge with progressive metal". Just when we were getting used to the recently adopted change! 
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24438 |
Posted: March 06 2008 at 00:20 |
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Micky won't be happy about that, not happy at all.. You should count yourselves lucky that his Internet connection was down and he couldn't answer. I don't want to speak on his behalf here, because he'll have enough time to respond to this issue when he gets back online.
I just want to say something, before I leave to go to work: before you speak, be sure to get the correct information, as David did. I am the only person on PA who was actually there when the phenomenon of RPI (Rock Progressivo Italiano) was born, and I know what I am talking about. |
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 06 2006 Location: A² Michigan Status: Offline Points: 5109 |
Posted: March 06 2008 at 00:35 |
Oh, you mean as subdivisions of Prog Metal as a whole? That would be madness! 
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 27 2005 Location: Nauru Status: Offline Points: 46301 |
Posted: March 06 2008 at 01:02 |
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Skipping the part where I have to try to say something ironic...
Well, Riley, the nationality problem has been raised by many, even by Specialists. So try checking the "sound" and "flavor" of ISP music, cause from your post it looks like you've only been amazed by the "nationality" issue. Edited by Ricochet - March 06 2008 at 01:07 |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: March 06 2008 at 01:15 |
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I think we actually should start a bigger division:
British prog rock (divided in scottish, english and northern irish prog rock)
German prog rock (divided in krautrock and prog-rock made in german a la british)
French prog rock (Zeuhl and gourmet prog rock)
Swedish prog rock (divided in symphonic swedish prog rock a la 70's and symphonic swedish prog rock a la crimson)
Ecuadorian Prog rock (wishful thinking...
 )Mauritanian Prog rock....
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24438 |
Posted: March 06 2008 at 02:17 |
Sorry for not addressing the musical issue in my earlier post, but I was having breakfast before going to work, and needed a bit more time to gather my thoughts.
The influence of ISP (which is a misnomer, btw... Half of the bands there are NOT symphonic as such) is very clearly to be seen in many South American and Japanese prog bands, as Ivan and Guigo would be able to tell you. As a matter of fact, when Guigo comes back from his European trip (he's in Paris now.. .I met him last Sunday in Rome), he'll probably chime in and share his wisdom on this particular issue. Until then, I'm afraid you'll have to take our word for that.  Edited by Ghost Rider - March 06 2008 at 05:02 |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: March 06 2008 at 03:34 |
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As Raf has pointed out, ISP is not simply an extract of Symphonic Prog based on the regional identity of the band. It is a recognised style of prog and while most of the protagonists are naturally Italian, there are some non-Italian providers.
Likewise, Krautrock and Canterbury may be named after places, but they are musical styles (although my personal feeling in the case of Canterbury is that it defines a group of linked artists rather than a discernable style of music).
I don't want to resurrect the RPI debate, but the concern of the admin team about changing ISP to RPI was that doing so could make the regional aspect more important than the musical one.
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Kotro
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 16 2004 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
Posted: March 06 2008 at 04:45 |
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Let's abolish all genres. Problem solved.
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Bigger on the inside.
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 8844 |
Posted: March 06 2008 at 19:25 |
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If we need to separate out every region which has a unique-sounding genre of prog, we're gonna need an awful lot of extra subgenres. ISP is no more different from the rest of symphonic than American RIO is from the rest of the avant scene, or than Japanese Zeuhl is from the French variety. Hell, we'll probably need at least a dozen folk genres, because every region's folk music is different.
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ClassicRocker
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 894 |
Posted: March 06 2008 at 23:14 |
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^^^ was the RIO movement in America at all?
 I didn't think it was....
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
Posted: March 06 2008 at 23:22 |
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Revolution calling!
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cuncuna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2005 Location: Chile Status: Offline Points: 4318 |
Posted: March 06 2008 at 23:28 |
Don't forget Antigua y Barbuda prog. |
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¡Beware of the Bee!
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cuncuna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2005 Location: Chile Status: Offline Points: 4318 |
Posted: March 06 2008 at 23:30 |
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There's a more important genre that hasn't been considered here: the "¿How in the world is this prog?. Bands to list should start with Mercury Rev.
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¡Beware of the Bee!
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Abolish Italian Symphonic Prog as a genre
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schizoid_man77 wrote: