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barbs View Drop Down
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Points: 562 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Qualified opinions
    Posted: June 06 2007 at 22:49
I would be the first to agree that there are some genres within the body of prog rock that I am not really qualified to speak (or vote on), Zeul being one of a number. I guess the areas that I have traditionally listened to have been, Metal and Symphonic/Art prog with my fav bands being Yes, Porcupine Tree, Dark Suns, Redemption, DT, Genesis, KC (well you get the picture).
 
I believe however, that I can appreciate the beauty of artistry or even technical brilliance in the music (I do have a musical background of sorts) but I still do not believe that this gives me the right to 'vote' on an album just because that style of music does not suit my taste or I cannot understand the nature of the music. Generally I just leave it alone unless I believe I can gain something from the experience.
 
Why then, do we have people voting a 1 on an album such as Redemptions 'Origin of Ruin', when the only apparent reason it was done (no explanation for the vote) would appear to be to demean the numerical value of the album in the system. I know it has been done the other way around as well.
 
Those that have completed university or perhaps just attended would be aware that in most western universities it is fine to have an opinion about something, just make sure you back up your arguement with sources and sound logic.
 
Can we apply the same principals here with the voting system. I do not believe that anyone should be allowed to vote on an album without giving at least two paragraphs of justification why you voted that way. At least then we might have some idea of what we are dealing with.
 
Eternity
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BroSpence View Drop Down
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Points: 2614 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2007 at 01:29
Preach it brother!
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Speakerfish View Drop Down
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Points: 83 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2007 at 01:29
Like paid critics. They have to like all foods in order to differentiate between a good burger and a bad burger (for example). I totally agree with you. It seems some people waste their time voting for, like, prog metal, even if they don't like prog metal.
Dissonance; subtle harmonic dissonance
Contemplating and completing the negative space
Romantic symphonies left on the floodplains
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Birdman View Drop Down
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Points: 106 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2007 at 01:39
I was actually thinking about that the other day, why would somebody bother to vote without any explanations.  If feel it is a great opportunity to voice your opinion and let others know your feelings and emotions on a particular piece of music.  It is a privilege to tell the world what we feel.  I think if you can't take the time to put down a few lines, than don't bother at all.
Et je ferme les yeux
Puis je croise les doigts
Pour empêcher
Les souvenirs de fuir.
(KERMESS - Atome d'existence)
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Asphalt View Drop Down
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Points: 456 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2007 at 01:49
^^^ excellent point; I sometimes stumble upon albums that have 3 to 7 5 stars and no review whatsoever Confused Would you consider disallowing simple voting (i.e. without also submitting a review) too harsh a measure at this point? You'd still get ludicrous reviews but at least know what's it all about.
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Birdman View Drop Down
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Points: 106 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2007 at 01:57
Originally posted by Asphalt Asphalt wrote:

^^^ excellent point; I sometimes stumble upon albums that have 3 to 7 5 stars and no review whatsoever Confused Would you consider disallowing simple voting (i.e. without also submitting a review) too harsh a measure at this point? You'd still get ludicrous reviews but at least know what's it all about.


I say a ludicrous opinion is better than no opinion at all, don't you think ?
Et je ferme les yeux
Puis je croise les doigts
Pour empêcher
Les souvenirs de fuir.
(KERMESS - Atome d'existence)
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Visitor13 View Drop Down
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Points: 4702 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2007 at 02:17
AFAIK the site's owners insist on the possibility of rating an album without giving a review, so even though many (including myself) don't agree with this policy, it is here to stay.
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barbs View Drop Down
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Points: 562 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2007 at 03:10
Originally posted by Visitor13 Visitor13 wrote:

AFAIK the site's owners insist on the possibility of rating an album without giving a review, so even though many (including myself) don't agree with this policy, it is here to stay.
 
It is my understanding that this site prides itself on being the 'best' prog site on the net. I don't think we are talking about elitism here but integrity. Collaborators on this site are obviously invited because of a natural predisposition towards their particular area of interest and generally are considered to be knowledgable about an artist when they provide a review. Therefore, more weight is given to some reviews over others when you read them personally.
 
I just believe that if someone wishes to give a 1 (or 5) without any explanation, it should not be given near the same weight, as a vote that provides a rational explanation for the decision. That would be fair.
 
If it was disseminated clearly on the site that even though your rating will count without a review, it will only count for a percentage of a full review, it would also encourage those with a real interest in the band to reveal their understanding and the rest will probably not bother. Either way it would hopefully provide 'justice' for the bands that are 'attacked' in this way and more integrity in the voting system.  
 
Thanks for all the positive feedback by the way.
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Visitor13 View Drop Down
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Points: 4702 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2007 at 03:39
Originally posted by barbs barbs wrote:

Originally posted by Visitor13 Visitor13 wrote:

AFAIK the site's owners insist on the possibility of rating an album without giving a review, so even though many (including myself) don't agree with this policy, it is here to stay.

 

It is my understanding that this site prides itself on being the 'best' prog site on the net. I don't think we are talking about elitism here but integrity. Collaborators on this site are obviously invited because of a natural predisposition towards their particular area of interest and generally are considered to be knowledgable about an artist when they provide a review. Therefore, more weight is given to some reviews over others when you read them personally.

 

I just believe that if someone wishes to give a 1 (or 5) without any explanation, it should not be given near the same weight, as a vote that provides a rational explanation for the decision. That would be fair.

 

If it was disseminated clearly on the site that even though your rating will count without a review, it will only count for a percentage of a full review, it would also encourage those with a real interest in the band to reveal their understanding and the rest will probably not bother. Either way it would hopefully provide 'justice' for the bands that are 'attacked' in this way and more integrity in the voting system.  

 

Thanks for all the positive feedback by the way.


Agreed.

It seems that the reason for keeping ratings without reviews is that the owners want to allow people who don't speak English the chance to rate albums.
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Easy Livin View Drop Down
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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2007 at 04:15
There are a lot of threads and discussions on this.
 
We want the site to be open to all, regardless of academic ability, first language. etc. For many reasons, a lot of people do not feel they are in a position to submit a coherent review written in English. In order to allow such people to record their views on the music they enjoy (or do not enjoy!), we continue to allow ratings without reviews.
 
We do however recognise and reward the efforts of those who do write reviews by applying favourable weightings to their ratings. Details of this are included in the Frequently asked questions announcement thread.
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