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Chogwy View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Writing Prog Rock
    Posted: June 03 2007 at 09:29
Hello there fellow proggers!

I am a very young progger (just turned 16) and i have composed a few progressive influenced songs mainly in the influence of canterbury scene. I would just like to get some tips of someone for composing prog rock so that my songs sound more professional- E.G. time signature orders, creating proggy riffs ect... ANY HELP?? please.

Thnaks a lot.

-Ryan
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2007 at 09:31
Learn music theory.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2007 at 09:43
Originally posted by robertplantowns robertplantowns wrote:

Learn music theory.



Although there's no specific "prog theory" (as far as I'm aware), from what I've gathered, most of it is a combination of jazz and classical theory. As for changing time signatures, that's meant to be done just if it feels right in the piece you're composing - you shouldn't write a piece with specific intent to have rapidly changing time signatures.

For instance, in "Man-Erg", the time signature change from the more regular time signature (I think it's just 4/4) to 11/8 is done for a kind of "madness" effect. If you've heard the track, you'll know what I mean.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2007 at 09:44
YEA THATS A PART OF IT , know most basic music theory , i probably should advance in more complex theory
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2007 at 10:04
Originally posted by cursestar cursestar wrote:

As for changing time signatures, that's meant to be done just if it feels right in the piece you're composing - you shouldn't write a piece with specific intent to have rapidly changing time signatures


Unless you want to end up as a prog-metal wannabe. No offense to prog-metal, there's decent stuff there, but writing music just for the sake of complexity brings down a lot of these bands.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2007 at 10:12
Try to make your music tell a story, and have your lyrics just sound nice.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2007 at 10:32
Don't try to write in a genre such as Prog- It limits you.

Try to write, however cheesy this may sound, how you feel- the music is you.
If you write something that doesn't sound Prog that's great, explore as much as you can.

About music theory- Learning music theory will increase knowledge, but in order for it to be useful you need to learn how to apply it to your music, which alot of people, especially myself, struggle with. If you can apply theory, you'll have much more potential than someone who can't.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2007 at 10:34
You need to be patient and alot of the time you won't be happy with what you write. The best tact for me is to listen to as much diverse music as I can to be widly influenced and try to be creative and come up with something really different. Experiment with different ideas!
Remember that progressive does not equal complex, that does come into it but originality should be the number one concern.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2007 at 10:35
Id' say Keep It Simple - don't get over complicated just for the sake of it.
 
Think about how a song is structured, how it flows and whether all the shifts and sections are really necessary or just plain indulgent. Listen to stuff you like and de-construct it and analyse it, then put it back together within the confinds of what you do know. In other words, learn from what works and when you understand why it works, experiment on your own pieces.
 
Wacky time signatures are all well and good, but if they don't fit with what you are trying to do then there is no point. Phil Collins was a past master of taking some of Mike Rutherford's wierd time-sigs and bringing them back to something realistic - you don't need 13/16 time when 6/8 would do just as well,
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2007 at 11:42
Don't sit down and tell yourself "I'm going to write prog", because prog is just a wider term used to describe otherwise completely different artists. Decide what you want your songs to be about and then devise a way to get that story out to the listener.

You could start by writing a chord progression and then basing a melody around it, or the opposite.

Take the time to study music in school. Knowing theory will help you get a much more powerful grasp on composition, inserting melodic and interesting solos, and making chords stay in the same key. Transpositions will sound interesting, rather than the way most bands transpose (let's play the same thing, but on the next string up on the guitar).

There's a lot you can do, and a lot you can mess up. Just try to enjoy yourself, and the music will come out sincere and candid, which is what too many musicians lack today.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2007 at 11:43
Get really high and fool around with your instrument.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2007 at 22:57
I'm going to elaborate a bit on some things others have said here - keep it simple, and don't try to write prog, just write music.

There was a time when I used to think the same thing - how do I write a prog song?  After all, I loved progressive rock, and I wanted to make music that I liked.  But the problem is, when you go about trying to write a particular type of song just for the sake of making that type of song, somewhere deep inside your heart isn't quite in it.  I have never had a song turn out well if it didn't come to me naturally.  In fact, the most 'proggy' music I have written to date has come to me seemingly from out of the blue, while my attempts at writing prog purposefully do not flow or sound more ordinary than other songs I have written.

I think the best thing you can probably do, assuming you're writing music alone, is just play your instrument - and if you want your songs to be about something, or if you're feeling emotional, I personally would suggest singing or thinking about a vocal line while you're playing.  That's one way that lyrics can come naturally from you.  You might even figure out things that have been bothering you for weeks, months, even years, that were just waiting for the right time to come to the surface.  These things can be great inspiration for songs.

I also find it helpful to write down absolutely any idea that comes into my head regardless of where I am.  If you can't write it down right that second, keep it in your head until the instant that you can.  Sing in the shower. :)  I'm serious.

^ I wouldn't suggest getting high, myself.  I wouldn't know if it makes you more creative or not, but starting habits that are hard to break usually isn't a good idea. Stern%20Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2007 at 23:01
Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

Originally posted by cursestar cursestar wrote:

As for changing time signatures, that's meant to be done just if it feels right in the piece you're composing - you shouldn't write a piece with specific intent to have rapidly changing time signatures


Unless you want to end up as a prog-metal wannabe. No offense to prog-metal, there's decent stuff there, but writing music just for the sake of complexity brings down a lot of these bands.

I believe it's called w**kery.Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2007 at 23:01
Originally posted by The Wizard The Wizard wrote:

Get really high and fool around with your instrument.

Like half the teenagers in the world do?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2007 at 23:03
Originally posted by Novalis Novalis wrote:

Originally posted by The Wizard The Wizard wrote:

Get really high and fool around with your instrument.

Like half the teenagers in the world do?
Yep, and half the prog musicians too.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2007 at 23:04
Originally posted by The Wizard The Wizard wrote:

Originally posted by Novalis Novalis wrote:

Originally posted by The Wizard The Wizard wrote:

Get really high and fool around with your instrument.

Like half the teenagers in the world do?
Yep, and half the prog musicians too.

I know what you are getting at, but I think you need some form of music theory or training as well.

Of course there is that small group of people who are born supermusical, but we can't guarantee that, can we?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2007 at 23:06
there's nothing wrong with some genuine and highly-skilled w**kery.. one man's w**kery is another's fresh approach. I'm sure many important artists were accused of this such as Robert Fripp or Steve Reich, not to mention tons of others in the progressive and avant scenes.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2007 at 23:06
Originally posted by Novalis Novalis wrote:

Originally posted by The Wizard The Wizard wrote:

Originally posted by Novalis Novalis wrote:

Originally posted by The Wizard The Wizard wrote:

Get really high and fool around with your instrument.

Like half the teenagers in the world do?
Yep, and half the prog musicians too.

I know what you are getting at, but I think you need some form of music theory or training as well.

Of course there is that small group of people who are born supermusical, but we can't guarantee that, can we?
depends what style you are playing (this plan worked well for hawkwind)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2007 at 23:06
Originally posted by The Wizard The Wizard wrote:

Get really high and fool around with your instrument.
umm
that sounds kinky.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2007 at 23:25
I learned music theory and other musical concepts a while ago, and now I just sit down and play whatever I feel like playing (all of the theory I've learned does stick with me though).  All I really care about is making my music flow to the next section, what feels right, and stuff like that.  I don't purposely try to write oddly timed music, it just happens to come out odd.

Just...have fun.  I like to mess around with whatever I can and then think of what layers I can add on top.  Those layers that go on top (or behind) can help a song flow into more new ideas.

Another idea is to create music with a certain mood.  Sometimes I like to sit down and play something melancholic, or groovy, or whatever.  Good results can come from that.

I don't know how helpful I am, but I hope some of this may be able to help you.
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