| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
The Whistler 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 30 2006
Location: LA, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 7113
|
 Topic: A What If Pink Floyd Question...
Posted: March 29 2007 at 03:53 |
Not a Roger Waters keeps the band OR Syd doesn't go crazy question. No, a question that I've never heard voiced before, and as a result, one which you probably won't find all that interesting and the thread shall sink...I'm really selling this, aren't I?
I read in...some kind of an interview or something that good ole Rog wanted Dark Side to be really dry, whereas Dave wanted it swampy. Dave got his wish, and Roger didn't get to make a "dry-art" album until Animals. Wish was cold, to be sure, but I think that Animals is how Roger wanted Dark Side.
NOW, what if he'd gotten said wish (not Wish). What if Dark Side was dry, like Animals, the next album was dry, all throughout the seventies? I actually sort of prefer the drier albums by Pink Floyd, so I think it would have been good.
Unless, of course, he'd gone off the deep end and made the Final Cut, killing the band, noise, etc. I haven't really heard the album, but I have heard of it (both from others and sound clips), so I'll play that it's not fantastic. But was that the natural direction, or the curse of 80's prog?
Would Roger taking dictatorial control have been better for the band's output? Or would it have killed it sooner? Would Wish even have been created? Should this be a poll? Who's better, Pink Floyd or the Moody Blues? I'm listening...
|
|
"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
|
 |
Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 16969
|
Posted: March 29 2007 at 06:02 |
|
I can't let this go on any further. Waters was Pink Floyd. Gilmour admitted as much in the Mason book when he said that Roger was the one who stayed all night, did the writing on the fly, got the job done, while he (Dave) and the others went home nice and early for a hot dinner and foot massage. David is a talented guitarist and vocalist who gave great gifts to the sound, but make no mistake, Roger is the reason that the 70s Floyd albums are great, while the Gilmour "Floyd" albums are nice pop music schlock. There is NO debate here. Ole Rog was the man, while the boys played their parts as rock stars. You take Waters out of the 70s albums and you'd have another 5 or so "Momentary Lapses" on your hands. What a nightmare that would be.
|
|
...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
|
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65441
|
Posted: March 29 2007 at 06:10 |
|
^
Though that may be largely true, it's the same as saying John Lennon was the Beatles or Pete Townsend was the Who; though debatably accurate it ignores others' contributions that made the music distincly what it was.. and that's what a great band really is, that rare coming together of people who share a musical vision and are able to add to that vision in a way irreplacable by another.
|
|
toolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
Status: Offline
Points: 1678
|
Posted: March 29 2007 at 06:15 |
 Finnforest wrote:
I can't let this go on any further. Waters was Pink Floyd. Gilmour admitted as much in the Mason book when he said that Roger was the one who stayed all night, did the writing on the fly, got the job done, while he (Dave) and the others went home nice and early for a hot dinner and foot massage. David is a talented guitarist and vocalist who gave great gifts to the sound, but make no mistake, Roger is the reason that the 70s Floyd albums are great, while the Gilmour "Floyd" albums are nice pop music schlock. There is NO debate here. Ole Rog was the man, while the boys played their parts as rock stars. You take Waters out of the 70s albums and you'd have another 5 or so "Momentary Lapses" on your hands. What a nightmare that would be.
|
well said... its just that musical genius comes with the price of gigantic ego and possible insanity (fear not the word, i do believe that Roger from 1977 till 1983 was walking on thin ice, mentally..) and that resulted to the breaking of the band which prompted the fans to accuse Roger of this.. quite reasonably actually but noone can deny the fact that he was indeed Pink Floyd...
Edited by toolis - March 29 2007 at 06:20
|
|
-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
|
|
toolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
Status: Offline
Points: 1678
|
Posted: March 29 2007 at 06:41 |
Atavachron wrote:
^
rare coming together of people who share a musical vision and are able to add to that vision in a way irreplacable by another.
|
this is where we disagree... it was Roger's vision and only his... concepts such as Animals and The Wall were 99% his.. i'll admit though that PF's sound wouldn't be the same if it hadn't been the rest musicians, they wouldn't have sounded the same but i don't think it would have made that much of a difference...
Edited by toolis - March 29 2007 at 06:41
|
|
-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
|
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65441
|
Posted: March 29 2007 at 06:49 |
toolis wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
^
rare coming together of people who share a musical vision and are able to add to that vision in a way irreplacable by another.
|
this is where we disagree... it was Roger's vision and only his... concepts such as Animals and The Wall were 99% his.. i'll admit though that PF's sound wouldn't be the same if it hadn't been the rest musicians, they wouldn't have sounded the same but i don't think it would have made that much of a difference... |
Ohh... big difference. One person's presence, contributions, their very being, makes a huge (though oft unnoticed) difference. If all three of the other members had been different individuals, we might not even be having this discussion.
|
|
A B Negative
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 02 2006
Location: Methil Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 1594
|
Posted: March 29 2007 at 06:53 |
No. Roger Waters, Rick Wright, Nick Mason and David Gilmour / Syd Barrett were Pink Floyd.
If "Roger Waters was Pink Floyd", why is his solo work less interesting than his work with Pink Floyd?
To get back to the point, if DSOTM were a "drier" album, it would probably not have been the springboard to worldwide fame it turned out to be. A lot of its original popularity was because of its multi-layered nature, coinciding with the rise in popularity of hi-fi systems. I'd probably enjoy a "drier" DSOTM more if the yodelling and caterwauling were removed. 
|
|
"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
|
|
toolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
Status: Offline
Points: 1678
|
Posted: March 29 2007 at 07:07 |
Atavachron wrote:
toolis wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
^
rare coming together of people who share a musical vision and are able to add to that vision in a way irreplacable by another.
|
this is where we disagree... it was Roger's vision and only his... concepts such as Animals and The Wall were 99% his.. i'll admit though that PF's sound wouldn't be the same if it hadn't been the rest musicians, they wouldn't have sounded the same but i don't think it would have made that much of a difference... |
Ohh... big difference. One person's presence, contributions, their very being, makes a huge (though oft unnoticed) difference. If all three of the other members had been different individuals, we might not even be having this discussion.
|
with every respect, i think you are exadurating.. neither Mason nor Wright were brilliant musicians, they just had their own distinct sound that if it hadn't been, PF would sound merely different, not inferior..
i may accept that Gilmour contributed the most to PF's sound but he composed like only 5% of PF classics...
|
|
-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
|
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65441
|
Posted: March 29 2007 at 07:19 |
toolis wrote:
with every respect, i think you are exadurating.. neither Mason nor Wright were brilliant musicians
I didn't say they were.. they were, of course, but I didn't say that.
they just had their own distinct sound that if it hadn't been, PF would sound merely different, not inferior..
No way of knowing.
i may accept that Gilmour contributed the most to PF's sound but he composed like only 5% of PF classics...
That may be an inaccurate statement. |
|
|
moebius
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 16 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 160
|
Posted: March 29 2007 at 07:54 |
And what is the big problem with The Final Cut? I found it very interesting and is my second favorite Pink Floyd album.
You donīt like the self-indulgency of Roger Waters?
I do.
|
|
febus
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: January 23 2007
Location: Orlando-Usa
Status: Offline
Points: 4312
|
Posted: March 29 2007 at 08:07 |
Agreed!!!!!
 We may or may not like Roger Waters persona, but that has nothing to do with the fact he is Pink Floyd.
There is no debate, as we just have to look at the writings credits throughout their carreers to see who is the main composer and spirit..
|
|
febus
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: January 23 2007
Location: Orlando-Usa
Status: Offline
Points: 4312
|
Posted: March 29 2007 at 08:15 |
Forgot to answer about the Moody Blues/PINK Floyd ''rivalry''
There is no match as i see the Moody Blues as a pop/ singles band with a mellotron. I like them, good songs, some very dull ones as well, nice arrangements but nothing revolutionary ( no SAUCERFUL, AHM, MEDDLE ,DSOTM or the WALL)
But i think the MOODIES were in a way groundbreaking with their first album ''DAYS OF FUTURE PASSED'' coming out in 1967 and is considered by many the first ''prog'' album released. And how cannot we like ''nights in white satin''
But i'll take AHM on my island desert  |
|
Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
|
Posted: March 29 2007 at 08:21 |
|
Waters contribution to the Floyd was huge; to their sound, their concepts and the whole spirit of what Floyd was percieved to be about by the record buying public - not just fans. I heard them described in a documentary once as 'The spokesmen for the dissapointed' ...
I do believe there was a good balance going on between what Waters contributed and what Gilmour contributed. Floyd would not have been the force, in rock music, they were without Gilmours guitar playing, and he was technically a better singer than Waters - so was Wright! - but you only have to listen to 'Dogs' to realise that Waters had a streak of cold conceptual genius that was vital to the Floyd formula.
I much prefer a 'dry' Pink Floyd, and I have always preferred 'Animals' to 'DSOTM' or 'WYWH' As to whether the band would have split sooner had Waters gained complete control...Yes, I dont doubt it for a moment. The guy is an utter psycho, and a very clever and entertaining one at that.
Not a bad musical career for someone who is said to be tone deaf.
|
|
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
|
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65441
|
Posted: March 29 2007 at 08:24 |
Blacksword wrote:
Not a bad musical career for someone who is said to be tone deaf. |
 That explains The Wall (one of my favorite records BTW)
|
|
Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
|
Posted: March 29 2007 at 08:35 |
|
|
|
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
|
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65441
|
Posted: March 29 2007 at 08:43 |
yes, or 'Another Brick.. Pt 2'
ahh, but what wonderful shrieking "HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY PUDDING IF YA DONT EAT YER MEAT?!"
Edited by Atavachron - March 29 2007 at 08:43
|
|
seamus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 01 2007
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 300
|
Posted: March 29 2007 at 08:45 |
|
WATERS+GILMOUR+WRIGHT+MASON(+BARRETT) = PINK FLOYD!!!!!
WATERS+CLAPTON or BECK or somethin' else = ROGER WATERS....
THAT'S MY OPINION!!!
|
|
dedokras
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 04 2006
Location: Bulgaria
Status: Offline
Points: 635
|
Posted: March 29 2007 at 10:37 |
|
think you're right, and also: GILMOUR+WRIGHT+MASON+A DOZEN HIRED MUSICIANS=GILMOUR+WRIGHT+MASON+A DOZEN HIRED MUSICIANS
|
|
XTChuck
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 407
|
Posted: March 29 2007 at 11:21 |
A B Negative wrote:
If "Roger Waters was Pink Floyd", why is his solo work less interesting than his work with Pink Floyd?
|
Good question. I don't enjoy any of the "Radio KAOS" or "The Pros and Cons..." material nearly as well. Actually, I can't handle "The Final Cut" either but, for all intents and purposes, that was a Roger Waters solo record also. I think he got too power hungry toward the end of his Pink Floyd days and the band's music suffered. Why do you think Rick Wright quit?
|
|
febus
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: January 23 2007
Location: Orlando-Usa
Status: Offline
Points: 4312
|
Posted: March 29 2007 at 12:33 |
XTChuck wrote:
A B Negative wrote:
If "Roger Waters was Pink Floyd", why is his solo work less interesting than his work with Pink Floyd?
|
Good question. I don't enjoy any of the "Radio KAOS" or "The Pros and Cons..." material nearly as well. Actually, I can't handle "The Final Cut" either but, for all intents and purposes, that was a Roger Waters solo record also. I think he got too power hungry toward the end of his Pink Floyd days and the band's music suffered. Why do you think Rick Wright quit? |
''AMUSED TO DEATH'' holds its own against everything else PF has released
I agree ''Radio Kaos'' is a mixed bag!
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
A What If Pink Floyd Question...
