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Witchwoodhermit View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: If Only. A Closer Study
    Posted: February 07 2007 at 01:02

Inspired by a recent poll, I direct a question to the followers of bands that dissolved (or slowly faded away ) before their time.

The poll asks If Only, Syd didn't leave Floyd, Peter leave Genesis, or Wyatt leave the Softs etc.
My question is, for the devout fans of these bands, who I'm sure have thought about these scenerios before, what do you think the outcome would have been.
Now I'm looking for informed, thought out observations by real fans.
 
For me it's Floyd and Syd.
If Syd hadn't "gone crazy" and kept up his frontman position in Pink Floyd, I don't think they would've lasted much past 1970.
Syd's whimsical and imaginary lyrics were perfect for their time. Syd and the Floyd captured the London underground (66-67) perfectly. Truly within their time.
Once the underground psyche scene started to wain, and rock music began to take on a harder edge, the Floyd would begin to be musically out dated. Roger, being a natural songwritter, would also start to compete with Barrett. Lyrical and musical directions would begin to surface. A break- up between Barrett and Waters would ensue. Waters being a dominant  figure, compared to the sensitive Syd. The Pink Floyd, still a young band, would dissolve.
Wright and Mason might follow Barrett, into a new group, with a note worthy ,but limited success. Waters would re-group, but not as a lead player, at first, but eventually have a obscure (cult followed) career before giving up by the mid-late seventies.
I think anyway.
 
Your turn.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2007 at 12:38
Cool idea. :)

Ok. It's 1975 and Peter G doesn't leave Genesis.
They release a couple of prog albums onto 1980, then begin to release albums in more artpop style. Phil isn't happy with this decision and leaves the band mid 80s to start his solo career, not ending up with much success, but some pretty good albums. Instead of him, Chester Thompson joins the band, and they release more albums. Tony and most of all Peter release some solo albums. Peter gets successful and leaves the group to focus on his solo trip.
The genesis trio (Banks-Rutherford-Thompson) engages a singer for one more album, which doesn't get that much success and good echo from fans (too commercial) so the group disbands.
PC sings some love songs but also plays drums in PGs band. PG continuues his musical career, and 2007, the fans are exscpecting I/O. ;)
I am Swiss, so don't kill me for this!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2007 at 15:02

That's the spirit.Clap

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2007 at 16:03
Originally posted by SignalToNoise SignalToNoise wrote:

Cool idea. :)

Ok. It's 1975 and Peter G doesn't leave Genesis.
They release a couple of prog albums onto 1980, then begin to release albums in more artpop style. Phil isn't happy with this decision and leaves the band mid 80s to start his solo career, not ending up with much success, but some pretty good albums. Instead of him, Chester Thompson joins the band, and they release more albums. Tony and most of all Peter release some solo albums. Peter gets successful and leaves the group to focus on his solo trip.
The genesis trio (Banks-Rutherford-Thompson) engages a singer for one more album, which doesn't get that much success and good echo from fans (too commercial) so the group disbands.
PC sings some love songs but also plays drums in PGs band. PG continues his musical career, and 2007, the fans are expecting I/O. ;)


Not to mention, Hackett leaves at the same time he actually does.

Also, since Banks/Rutherford/Thompson set on there auditions for a new lead singer a bit earlier then Banks and Rutherford in the mid 90's, this time, Kevin Gilbert has a chance to audition, and this time, He makes the band. With this new charismatic intelligent frontman, they continue to make several amazing albums.

Hackett, just recently out of the failure of GTR, gets jealous of the newly exploded line up of Genesis, and decides to rejoin the band. The rest of the band, still friends with Hackett, decide to let him in.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2007 at 16:08
It's 1973 and Damo Suzuki doesn't become a Jehovah's Witness.
 
He remains with CAN, and they release two or three more albums in new styles, without the poor lyrics and vocals of their next two albums, but with the same sort of experimentation.  They eventually disband without having ever gone commercial, because Damo was there to steer them right.  And CAN fans lived happily ever after...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2007 at 17:10
^^^ There's a tear in my eye.Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2007 at 20:25
Originally posted by inpraiseoffolly inpraiseoffolly wrote:

It's 1973 and Damo Suzuki doesn't become a Jehovah's Witness.
 
He remains with CAN, and they release two or three more albums in new styles, without the poor lyrics and vocals of their next two albums, but with the same sort of experimentation.  They eventually disband without having ever gone commercial, because Damo was there to steer them right.  And CAN fans lived happily ever after...


Unfortunately, we'd still find Holger getting bored of bass and being replaced with Rosko.  Also, Can would still find a multitrack recorder, and they would leave their method of jamming and editing for a more compositional playing.

So basically, I think that Soon and Landed might be a little better, but you'd still have the band die around '76 or '77. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2007 at 08:08
oh, thanks, floydian42, really forgot Steve
I am Swiss, so don't kill me for this!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2007 at 12:32
Nice thread!
I have no suffcient fantasies. You can elaborate for me.
What happened if....
- Robert Fripp would be friendly to his fellows in KC mark 1
- Rick Wakeman didn't eat noodles during the performance of the Revealing Scienc eof God, circa 1973
- Fish would not be drunk every night during the Clutching at Straws tour
- The Sex Pistols and Bob Marley would not have any success
- After producing Pet Sounds, Brian Wilson did not have a VERY bad trip
- PFM decided to stay in the US and do other albums after 1976
- John Bonham didn't die
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2007 at 12:46
Dear Aprusso.
If only...

"Rick Wakeman didn't eat noodles during the performance of the Revealing Scienc eof God, circa 1973"

- It wasn't noodles, it was a take-away curry!

"The Sex Pistols and Bob Marley would not have any success"

- If Bob Marley had not been succesful, we would have missed out on that sublime live version of 'No Woman, no Cry', which sounds like Jamaican prog to me!

"John Bonham didn't die"

- Now THIS is a tricky one! Led Zep would undoubtedly have continued, but would Jimmy Page have recovered sufficiently to write some good new music???

My own additions:

- If only Patrick Moraz had stayed with Yes for a few more albums...
- If only Dave Stewart had kept playing prog...
- If only Bill Bruford had tried out that super group with Rick Wakeman and John Wetton...
- If only Robert Wyatt hadn't fallen from that balcony...
(Although we'd undoubtedly have missed out on ROCK BOTTOM)
- If only Kevin Ayers had known some commercial success...

That's all, for the moment...

Edited by fuxi - February 08 2007 at 12:47
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2007 at 14:39
Counterfactuals can be a blast...

What if Anthony Phillips had never left Genesis?
What if Phil Collins had not read that August 1970 ad for a drummer?
What if Peter Banks and Tony Kaye had not been purged from Yes?
What if Keith Emerson was successful in getting Jimi Hendrix to join ELP?
What if Neal Morse had never found God?
What if the Flower Kings decided to calm down and really focus on what they were doing? (I'm referring to all the filler that fills many of their albums)
What if Shaun Guerin and Kevin Gilbert had never died?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2007 at 17:07
Great concepts from everyone. Lets build up a history timeline though, based on your knowledge of your chosen band, and rock history.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2007 at 20:37
Originally posted by SignalToNoise SignalToNoise wrote:

oh, thanks, floydian42, really forgot Steve


It's alright, happens.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2007 at 22:49
In 1970 tensions flare between Peter Banks and the rest of Yes over having much of his musical space given over to orchestral passages. Record company execs demand the use of a mellotron in any further recordings to keep the production costs down. Banks is mollified since he believes he can badger Tony Kaye into giving him the space he deserves. Kayes unwillingness to progresss with the times forces the band to oust him. A strawberry blond technowiz Rick Wakeman is recruited for the third album.

 The rivalry of egos twixt Banks and Wakeman propels them both to stupendous performance. They shine so much it leaves Mr Squires bass sounding like little more than background noise, he feels like a fish out of water between the two others.  The somewhat simplistic yodeling of Jon Anderson leaves the songs basic enough to get some airplay and the album does well.

 Squire vows to keep up with the two others on the fourth album but his playing is fragile next to the juggernaught sound of the Banks/Wakeman war. Even so  he reaches through the din and many critics began to note the "trio of egos"

The fifth album becomes the bands masterpiece as Squire reaches the level of the other two and Jons animation of his voice brings him to the same place. All members of the band bring their skills as close to the edge as possible. The rivalries subside to friendly one upmanship on the tour and the tour is legendary in the anals of rock history. Unfortunatly no recordings were made. the band is more popular than ever.

 As is often the case with rock bands tragedy strikes at the peak of popularity. Peter Banks drowns in a flash flood. Wakeman being distraught over the loss of his long time rival leaves the music biz for many years. Squire hearing that Steve Howes 4 years in Jethro Tull were full of turbulence finds him an easy target for recruitment. He is also able to recruit a refugee from another prog rock band to man the keys, Patrick Moraz.

 The music from this point on never reaches the spame places as before but the spirit of cooperation between Howe and Moraz makes for a much smoother sound. Squire adjusts within a few albums and Jon is able to explore his softer voicings from the start and proves to be quite adept at it.





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