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Psychedelia 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 238
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 Topic: should proto prog and prog related removal
Posted: October 28 2006 at 19:36 |
There has been much discussion over the validity of these two supposed areas of prog. I believe that by having them the integrity of the site is compromised as bands that dont belong in the prog category are added. This site is meant for progressive rock and by definition these two areas aren't progressive
On the other hand proto prog could have a place as it shows the history of progressive music while both categories contain bands that some will think deserve if not to be in these genres then in true prog genres.
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Another emotional suicide, overdosed on sentiment and pride
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: October 28 2006 at 19:39 |
1. Neither should nor will be removed
2. Neither is acknowledged as being part of progressive rock
3. The site is whatever the owners want it to be
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
Status: Offline
Points: 28427
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Posted: October 28 2006 at 20:44 |
In my dreams, prog related genre should be removed 
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yesfan88
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 357
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Posted: October 28 2006 at 22:20 |
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I don't think either should be removed.
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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"- Evelyn Beatrice Hall
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Australian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2006
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 3278
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Posted: October 28 2006 at 22:34 |
Its far, far too late to even consider removing either genre, where would all the bands go?
Anyway they will stay, nothing can change that.
(Except if M@X or Prog Lucky decide to remove either genre )
Edited by Australian - October 28 2006 at 22:34
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Sasquamo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 26 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 828
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Posted: October 28 2006 at 23:02 |
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Yes. Both.
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: October 28 2006 at 23:44 |
proto prog and prog-related can only be removed if the owners decide to limit the scope of prog to the core essential.
within each category of prog there can be found bands that are not pogitself, but without whom prog could not have excisted or progressed as a whole.
asking for a limit, is cursing IMO.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
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Posted: October 29 2006 at 01:40 |
idem stonebeard.
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S Lang
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 01 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 441
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Posted: October 29 2006 at 05:31 |
 Psychedelia wrote:
There has been much discussion over the validity of these two supposed areas of prog. I believe that by having them the integrity of the site is compromised as bands that dont belong in the prog category are added. This site is meant for progressive rock and by definition these two areas aren't progressive
On the other hand proto prog could have a place as it shows the history of progressive music while both categories contain bands that some will think deserve if not to be in these genres then in true prog genres. |
I don't mean to offend, but your input is fairly limited, personal opinion driven and of somewhat immatue. Did you say progressive rock, or did you mean progressive music...? 
The categories are ill fitting - I'd agree with that - but it only calls for a re-name, not exclusion.
The integrity of the site is only compromised by excluding many more artists, that would easily qualify as Prog - even with no mellotrons....?
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the icon of sin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 588
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Posted: October 29 2006 at 05:39 |
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I think Proto Prog is quite important, but Prog Related has quite a few bands in which just shouldn't be here. Problem is, where will some of the Prog Related bands go which do deserve to be here? If we make another category for them, we'll eventually come round to a similar problem, and we can't chuck some out forever...
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Joolz
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 24 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1377
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Posted: October 29 2006 at 05:49 |
the icon of sin wrote:
I think Proto Prog is quite important, but Prog Related has quite a few bands in which just shouldn't be here. Problem is, where will some of the Prog Related bands go which do deserve to be here? If we make another category for them, we'll eventually come round to a similar problem, and we can't chuck some out forever...
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The problem is ..... your opinion of which bands deserve to be there probably differs from mine. Which of us is right? And, who decides?
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philippe
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 14 2004
Location: noosphere
Status: Offline
Points: 3597
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Posted: October 29 2006 at 06:51 |
"only the prog related genre should be removed" : yes, it's boring like hell and totally pointless, pure confusion.
the proto-prog category should stay because it gives us informations about the origins, sources and developement of progressive rock in its all diversity.
Edited by philippe - October 29 2006 at 06:54
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A² Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5109
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Posted: October 29 2006 at 07:35 |
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This is an inclusive site. The fact that they are here makes us more of a complete database. It also shows that the scope of prog is not isolated. It's not just some weird little genre, existing on the fringe. Its influence can be felt throughout many other genres. Not having these categories would makes us less complete.
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mystic fred
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 13 2006
Location: Londinium
Status: Offline
Points: 4252
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Posted: October 29 2006 at 07:49 |
REMOVAL??? - NO DEFINITELY NOT- these sections contain bands which were important influences in the development of prog, and enable you to see the whole picture! 
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 Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Vompatti
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: elsewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 67441
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Posted: October 29 2006 at 09:07 |
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NO! Neither should be removed. We would lose many bands that are important for prog but don't really fit into any of the other genres.
Edited by Vompatti - October 29 2006 at 09:07
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
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Posted: October 29 2006 at 09:21 |
philippe wrote:
"only the prog related genre should be removed" : yes, it's boring like hell and totally pointless, pure confusion.
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not to (necesarily) come in opposition with your opinion, monsieur Philippe, but I think that the related scene of progressive rock has its share of value. by the exact judgement you acknowledged over at proto-prog (though here very relative, whilst there in a definite way), I think the concept of prog-related is just about another interesting view upon influences, upon derived motifs, upon the diversity that "still stands-by", upon the imaginated connection and upon similar things. In other words, it's fine for me to see bands that have had the relation with prog/ have made the idea of prog a possibility/ have made an inclination towards the prog succint definition/ were at a point a prog's musicians or band / and so on to be motivated and mentioned as the related factor.
of course, controversy constantly (and recently) goes towards how related can you be and how expanded can we reach the domain. nonetheless, there are bands or musicians that are satisfyingly, if not great eligible artists, of the prog-related context.
progressive music isn't an intangible discipline in my opinion and this related factor shows an outside rim.
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: October 29 2006 at 09:31 |
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Both should be removed. Non-Prog categories don't belong on a Prog
site. If you're interested in my arguments, you can find them in the
recent thread in the Suggest New Bands section suggesting the addition
of Black Sabbath.
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: October 29 2006 at 11:59 |
Let's start from the understanding that these categories are here because the site owners consider them to be an important part of the site.
The discussion could perhaps be more constructive and fruitful if it shifted to examining the best way to incorporate these sections into the site. I'm not suggesting any immediate prospect of changes, but if a good suggestion is made, it would of course be considered. Removing the categories and their associated bands will not.
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: October 29 2006 at 12:05 |
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I think we could replace these two sections with articles describing
the idea of "Prog Relation" and the origins of Prog, aswell as
mentioning influential/important artists and records in each field.
Edited by Philéas - October 29 2006 at 12:06
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: October 29 2006 at 12:11 |
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I agree with Easy Livin'.
I do believe there is scope for some kind of re-naming process, especially for prog-related. The definition is a tad ambiguous.
You can't delete bands though once they're here. People work hard writing reviews, many reviewers aren't posters on the forum (even though you have to be a member), so if you deleted swathes of bands, they may suddenly wonder why and where their reviews are. Not everyone saves their reviews as Word files before either (I do, however).
I wouldn't even recommend removing those bands without reviews, because someone worked hard in getting them included in the first place.
True, many many bands inclusion I disagree with, but they're here to stay and there is little we can do.
Live with it people.
I do believe though, that a new initiative needs to be installed for future additions, particularly in the prog-related genre. A lot of bands that seem not suitable for other genres, seem to be put here, is this just?
There needs to be some kind of prog-related specialist, or someone needs to work closer with this genre.
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should proto prog and prog related removal
