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Topic ClosedFreewill

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Poll Question: Do we have freewill?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
12 [63.16%]
7 [36.84%]
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Sweetnighter View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Freewill
    Posted: January 03 2005 at 23:44
Remember, if you decide not to post, you still have made a choice 
I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die.
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aqualung28 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2005 at 00:12

Yrsh rules!

"O' lady look up in time o' lady look out of love
'n you should have us all
O' you should have us fall"
"Bill's Corpse" By Captain Beefheart
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Peter View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2005 at 01:35

No.

But I have free will.Stern Smile

(Reed, however, is offering a free willy....)Wink

"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2005 at 03:03

No.Environment and upbringing shapes us.We are all 'brain washed' to some extent.Whether we have the ability or not to bring about a state of Freewill is actually a more trickier question.I also believe NO in that instance as well as our will to achieve Freewill is effectively removed from a very early age.But if you are lucky enough to meet someone who is capable of unlocking it then ..perhaps,...maybe, who knows?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2005 at 03:13

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Jim Garten View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2005 at 03:24
Absolutely not - I had to pay for mine!

Mind you, I got a good deal on e-bay - only had to pay €112.57 after a fierce bidding battle; nearly had to settle for abstract state indoctrination, which I'd bid on by mistake

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2005 at 05:41
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

No.

But I have free will.Stern Smile

(Reed, however, is offering a free willy....)Wink

Peter, a quote from a film whose title escapes me:

"If it is big and heavy it must be expensive"

so I wont be offering free anything!Wink

 

actually, now I think about it it was Jurassic Park, quite apt for an old Dinosaur like you!LOL




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2005 at 07:32
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

No.Environment and upbringing shapes us.We are all 'brain washed' to some extent.Whether we have the ability or not to bring about a state of Freewill is actually a more trickier question.I also believe NO in that instance as well as our will to achieve Freewill is effectively removed from a very early age.But if you are lucky enough to meet someone who is capable of unlocking it then ..perhaps,...maybe, who knows?

Very true. We are all the product of our impulses and impressions as we mature and they shape us in subconscious ways most of us are not even aware of,and then there's the genetic codes we cannot shake off. So we have freewill but only to a certain point and only in certain circumstances.

Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2005 at 09:13

No matter how free willy get's he's never really free.

I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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James Lee View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2005 at 14:07

We have the capacity to make decisions, so there is freewill. Even a choice made at gunpoint has an alternative...even if the 'gun' is a few decades of personal history, thousands of years of cultural development, and/or hundreds of thousands of years of biological development. As long as there is the capacity for conscious thought, there is freewill.

Things can never be other than they are, so the choice you make is the only choice (unless you believe in parallel universes, but let's keep it simple for now). So there is no freewill, because we have always made the same specific decisions, just as we will continue to always make the same specific decisions in the future. It has nothing to do with personal choice- there's only one way that things can happen, despite all of our illusions and confusions. Freewill assumes that there is the possibility of choice, whereas there is only ever one outcome to any seeming dilemma.

I didn't vote because there's no "other" answer.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2005 at 14:26
 Almost my thoughts James.
I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2005 at 14:27
Originally posted by James Lee James Lee wrote:

We have the capacity to make decisions, so there is freewill. Even a choice made at gunpoint has an alternative...even if the 'gun' is a few decades of personal history, thousands of years of cultural development, and/or hundreds of thousands of years of biological development. As long as there is the capacity for conscious thought, there is freewill.

Things can never be other than they are, so the choice you make is the only choice (unless you believe in parallel universes, but let's keep it simple for now). So there is no freewill, because we have always made the same specific decisions, just as we will continue to always make the same specific decisions in the future. It has nothing to do with personal choice- there's only one way that things can happen, despite all of our illusions and confusions. Freewill assumes that there is the possibility of choice, whereas there is only ever one outcome to any seeming dilemma.

I didn't vote because there's no "other" answer.

I used to be indecisive, but.....................LOL




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2005 at 16:20

i believe we do have free will. though, we cannot do what we feel like (we are not "free") but many have the will to be free. to quote Marx;

"[People] make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like an nightmare on the brains of the living."

or

to quote Gandalf and Frodo

“I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo.  “So do I,” said Gandalf, “ and so do all who live to see such times.  But that is not for them to decide.  All that we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” 

 

i good book to read, imho, is the german ideology

 

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/german-ideol ogy/ch01.htm



Edited by asuma
*Remember all advice given by Asuma is for entertainment purposes only. Asuma is not a licensed medical doctor, psychologist, or counselor and he does not play one on TV.*
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Wizard/TRueStar View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2005 at 18:40

Yessiree!  But i guess I still bend over for the big guy, I STILL ATTEND HIGHSCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!

I'm gonna drop out 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2005 at 19:14

 

 

My attorney gave me a free will but I had to pay for the testament though when he found out I posted here.  He said I could not be in sound mind to frequent places like this.

.



"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2005 at 09:05
I have freewill, but I hate upseting people, so often go with their will.
Confusion will be my epitaph, as I crawl a cracked and broken path, if we make it we can all sit back and laugh, but I fear tomorrow I'll be crying.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2005 at 09:29
Bilden “http://www.edivu.com/editorial1/ksiers/siers062603.jpg” kan inte visas, då den innehåller fel.
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Peter View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2005 at 09:49
Originally posted by Wizard/TRueStar Wizard/TRueStar wrote:

Yessiree!  But i guess I still bend over for the big guy, I STILL ATTEND HIGHSCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!

I'm gonna drop out 

ConfusedSee you in the upgrading class!Ouch

Seriously Wiz, if you're serious, DON'T DO IT!

Believe me (and I have lots of experience with this) you'll regret it.

Now, more than ever, no HS diploma = no future.Stern Smile

High school doesn't last long, but your future lasts the rest of your life.Ermm

As far as I know, you only get one life -- why not do something worthwhile with it? Smile

"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2005 at 10:17
I'll believe in free will the day that the law of gravity becomes optional.
'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2005 at 10:22
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