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Wilcey View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: waxing lyrical
    Posted: May 31 2006 at 12:32
I have wasted an hour of good solid work time this afternoon to read through some reviews I have been meaning to get to for sometime.
I have noticed in several reviews, I wont say which because it is irrelevant for the topic, comments about lyrics. Can they make or break and album in the eyes of a reviewer?
If you don not understand a lyric do you dismiss it? Or do you delve and try to find out what it's all about?
Would you dismiss a lyric taken on a superficial understanding or would you scratch away at the surface and try to understand it further?
Alternatively can you be bothered?
Songs about great depth of emotion, are they irrelevant to you if you do not know or understand that emotion?
Songs that have historical or political content, would you search out the meaning or move on?

I have revisited some music recently from way back in my youth and all of a sudden they have made a whole heap more sense, does this apply to you or would you not revisit it?

In short, if the lyricist has poured out his heart and soul for you, do you have empathy and understanding or do you brush it away?


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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2006 at 12:43
I always read the lyrics if they're in the booklet supplied and if I can, I read them through whilst listening.  I am an amateur writer of poetry and enjoy reading, so lyrics do mean a lot to me.

Some lyrics are tougher to get into that others, such as Van der Graaf Generator for instance.  But them some of these lyrics are still difficult to understand after many many listens, due to Peter Hammill's use of words and metaphor.  He's obviously my favourite lyricist.  Pain of Salvation is another example.  Gildenlow's vocals on each album are part of an overall concept, so you really have to listen out to them.

Some vocals do tend to just go through me though, but that also depends on the music.  If the music doesn't excite me as much, the lyrics don't tend to go in either.

Also, it takes many listens to really appreciate lyrics, so if lyrics sound bad on first, or you don't understand them, keep on listening and they may eventually work!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2006 at 13:23
I'm actually quite interested in lyrics as a whole, even when I know they're not the most important thing in a band's overall production. IMHO, interesting lyrics enhance a song quite remarkably, especially when they are delivered by a great vocalist. Mind you, by "great" in this case I don't necessarily mean possessed of a powerful, operatic voice, but someone who can interpret what he or she is singing in order to convey the meaning in the most effective way. This is why I find Roger Waters a great vocalist (though his voice is by no means beautiful), while, conversely, James LaBrie bores me to death.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2006 at 13:49

Well, that depends on what you mean by "superficial inderstanding." I have no idea what A Passion Play is about and I don't get parts of Thick As A Brick; I have the feeling that Ian was just making **** up at some parts, (And the ice-cream lady wet her drawers to see you in the passion play) and some parts I get the feeling that it does actually mean something, but I'm missing it. (the part on TAAB about writing up your memoirs for the Boy Scout manual) However, I don't let that bother me, since Ian clearly put a significant amount of effort into them, and he uses proper grammar and complete sentences.

Sometimes horrible grammar can turn out to be ok; I think OK Computer and The Bends have very good lyrics, although sometimes they don't make a whole lot of sense unless you twist around in your head a bit. The lyrics for Kid A, Amnesiac, and parts of Hail to the Theif straight up suck, however. Syd's lyrics don't make any sense at all, but I love them. If something is alluding to an obscure event but it makes literal sense or it doesn't annoy me enough, I really can't be bothered searching all over for the answer. (unless it is easy to find, like that massive PDF file on Genesis)
 
However, what I have no patience for is Jon Anderson's lyrics. I don't know how the man did it; I can tolerate even The Mars Volta's insane lyrics. But his lyrics make me want to smash something. (with the exception of Relayer) I read Siddhartha: JON WAS JUST MAKING STUFF UP! I probably could handle his annoying lyrics if they were at least back in the mix, like with Can. But no, part 3 of CTTE is carried entirely by the lyrics and Jon's voice. So how come he's singing a bunch of bull****? I think what gets me is that Jon is taking it so seriously, when it's clearly a bunch of nonsense. Syd doesn't take himself seriously. Even The Mars Volta don't seem to take themselves all that seriously. But it feels like Jon is trying to say something, but he can't quite get it out. So lyrics can break an album, and they can improve an album; however, they can't make it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2006 at 15:31
I don't think Jon Anderson takes himself as seriously as you think. He has freely admitted that he often writes lyrics as much for the sound of the words as the meaning. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2006 at 17:19
My answer would be a big DEPENDS!

There are too many factors involved to be able to make a generalisation. I do feel that a writer who has probably expended a lot of effort to write some good/meaningful lyrics deserves a bit of effort on my part to understand them. Sometimes a song or album (eg The Wall) makes no sense at all without understanding its lyrics and concepts. Too often though I am too lazy, and merely listen on a superficial level without paying enough attention to lyrics.

I do feel that lyrics and their meaning are an integral part of a song, so as a reviewer I try to get some of that across if I can - assuming they are worth it, and that I understand them!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2006 at 18:18
I was going to say that meaning was very important but I like Yes and most of the time I have no idea (or at least never thought about) what the lyrics mean. Then there's some lyrics in prog that I think are a bit silly (I won't mention names). I guess it's not what the words are but how the words are sung with the music. It has to blend.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2006 at 00:10
I never used to really bother listening to lyrics years ago, i just used to concentrate on the rhythm, the music and the sound of the words, though these days i listen a lot harder and try to get to the meaning of the lyrics.
 
as far as reviews are concerned, don't take them too seriously they are only someone's personal opinion.


Edited by mystic fred - June 01 2006 at 00:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2006 at 00:18
I hardly ever mention lyrics in a review becuase, unless they're horrible--and to me, they never are--it doesn't effect my liking of an album. Very good lyrics add to the album though.
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Wilcey View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2006 at 05:32
Originally posted by mystic fred mystic fred wrote:


as far as reviews are concerned, don't take them too seriously they are only someone's personal opinion.


Oh Gosh, 100% agree..........I just find it interesting, what makes or breaks a lyric. Even here there has been comments along the lines of "unless they were rubbish" "unless they were silly" ........
(I am choosing to ignore the grammar issue G2.....
      .........don't even get me started ......... )

So the lyrics you don't "get"........ is that because of the lyricist's skill or because you are not able to understand them?
For example -Quantum physics makes a lot of sense to folk with that level of relevant understanding..... but it's all a bit silly to me, don't understand. Doesn't mean the theory of Quantum physics is WRONG, it means MY knowledge is not of a level to accept it.

(Please don't give me a hundred replies explaining physics )

I think Jon Anderson uses lyrics to make a sing-song sound sometiimes, its the timbre and rythmn of the words that are important the words themselves become almost irrelevant, and in this respect he is a very clever lyricist.

I dunno...........it's just something I have been thinking about the last few days...........
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2006 at 09:12
Well I got into prog because of the quality of musicianship here, on first listen the voice tends to be nothing more than another instrument adding to the overall sound, and singers like Fish, Peter Gabriel, Waters etc use their voice in a way that makes it very interesting. In most cases for me lyrics only have a small effect on how I would rate an album. For instance Symphony X have written lots of really cheesy songs, but I dont lower my rating for their albums much because of it, when I come to review their albums you'll find that I mark them down because most of their shorter songs all sound the same, its hard to tell wether some songs came from Divine Wings..., Twiligh..., The Odessey etc.

There are some that I take notice of the lyrics right from the start though, Fish probably being the best example. If people like Fish start wrighting poor lyrics it has an imediat impact on the quality of the song as they are such dominant personalities.

I guess I'm trying to say..... it depends.

Now as for physics..........Wink
Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2006 at 21:52
Lyrics can be very powerful
An example...
The Pinnacle-Kansas (very spiritual)
Somebody Else?-Queensryche (self discovery) and I have to say it again "Silent Lucidity" a song about dream control.
A lot of the lyrics from Live are actually quite mind blowing, and make me think about spiritual matters.
For me lyrics are as important as the music, Fish, Neil Peart etc..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2006 at 21:56
Lyrics are often interpretated for my ears like mummbling; since I'm from SouthAmerica, and since I mlike music from a lot of countries, and I won't read those lyrics. In all cases, when I do understand, if it sounds bad, the words are not well placed on the music score, etc., I do tend to take those albums appart. Like those DT lyrics (sorry fans), wich are beyond obvious and boring.
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