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Trickster F. 
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 Topic: Fripp's influence on VDGG...
Posted: May 17 2006 at 13:07 |
A long time ago, when I was just getting into prog I heard Pawn Hearts among other albums which were highly recommended by this site. I found it to be a tremendous genius album, and the reason why I got it was Fripp's presence. I know I wouldn't like the album as much as I do if there weren't all the bizarre, disharmonic moments that make it so brilliant.
I later explored group's other albums as well, and although they contained some rocking numbers, I couldn't find anything as intriguing as Pawn Hearts.
What I wanted to ask, was Pawn Hearts greatly influenced by Fripp's presence or his past work with King Crimson? Did he even write the parts he played?
-- Ivan
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BebieM
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Posted: May 17 2006 at 13:23 |
That's an interesting question indeed. I don't have an answer to it though 
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CaincelaOreinim
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Posted: May 17 2006 at 13:30 |
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I know just from second hand sources, that Fripp's roles in projects outside of Crimson I think have been largely: tell Mr. Fripp what he's supposed to do.
So in answer to your question, I think he just played what he was told...but who knows really.
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retuow
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Posted: May 17 2006 at 13:59 |
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Mister Fripp is also present on "H to He... Who Am The Only One" (on the song "The Emperor In His War Room".
But as CaincelaOreinim already said, I think he just played his parts.
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Human beings were created by water to carry it uphill.
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MustShaveBeard
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Posted: May 17 2006 at 15:34 |
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I don't know; the solo on "Emperor in his War-Room" sounds pretty Fripp-esque
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Your life or your lupins!!!
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FragileDT
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Posted: May 17 2006 at 15:40 |
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Yeah in response to this Hammill once mentioned that he was not "up to date" with all the newer acts at the time because VDGG wanted to put their spin on it, without the influence of what other acts were doing at the same time period.
The reason Fripp WANTED to play on VDGG's albums was because he was so intrigued with the way VDGG sounded and really respected their style.
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One likes to believe
In the freedom of music
But glittering prizes
And endless Compromises
Shatter the illusion
Of integrity
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el böthy
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Posted: May 17 2006 at 16:44 |
 FragileDT wrote:
Yeah in response to this Hammill once mentioned that he was not "up to date" with all the newer acts at the time because VDGG wanted to put their spin on it, without the influence of what other acts were doing at the same time period.
The reason Fripp WANTED to play on VDGG's albums was because he was so intrigued with the way VDGG sounded and really respected their style. |
If Fripp and Hammill would have made a band together...it would have been THE greatest prog act ever...not even King Crimson would have been that good!
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"You want me to play what, Robert?"
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pero
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Posted: May 22 2006 at 02:56 |
Listen to David Cross album "Exiles", where Fripp is on guitar and Hammill vocal in the best form, since Pawn hearts
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Rocktopus
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Posted: May 22 2006 at 03:20 |
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On Peter Hammill's fantastic solo album 'The Silent Corner and the
Empty Stage' Randy California of Spirit adds some disharmonic guitar
sounds not unlike the way Robert Fripp does. Especially on the song
'Red Shift'.
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
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VanderGraafKommandöh
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Posted: May 22 2006 at 03:51 |
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Fripp is also present on Hammill's debut Fool's Mate.
Hammill is present on one of Fripp's solo albums also.
I've heard the version of "Emperor In His War Room" without Fripp (which is a bonus track on the remastered versions of course) and it doesn't sound as great. Fripp certainly helps it become what it was.
To be honest, Fripp isn't terribly present on Pawn Hearts. I have a feeling (correct me if I'm wrong), that it was Hammill himself who performed on "Lemmings (featuring Cog)". Hammill always plays this part in concert himself and it always sounds very similar, so this is what makes me believe it is him.
Fripp was present on "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers", but you really have to listen out for him (the remasters help this).
If you want a Fripp-esque tune, listen to "Meurgly's III (The Songwriter's Guild)" from the "World Record" album.
I just believe Pawn Hearts was the climax of that particular era of the band. They wanted to produce something different and unique and that's precisely what they did.
Most people say there are 3 eras of VdGG, well, I'm more inclined to say there are 4 or 5.
First era - The band that produced "The Aerosol Grey Machine". Although this was supposed to be a solo album, so you may disregard this as the first era
Second era - From "The least we can do is wave to each other..." to "H to He Who Am the Only One". Two albums with similar ideas, even though they sound different to each other
Third era - The "Pawn Hearts" album. This was like nothing they had done before, or since, this was the epitome of VdGG, this was their greatest effort.
Fourth era - From "Godbluff" to "World Record". All featuring the same lineup as the second and third era, bit with a new sound. All albums drew on similar ideas. Hammill started to include his own electric guitar playing into the mix (he had first done so on Pawn Hearts I believe).
Fifth era - The Van der Graaf era... the lineup had changed and yet another sound had been created. Just the two albums (one of which was live).
And you can, infact have a Sixth era.
Sixth era - The reformation of the "classic" lineup. The album "Present" and concerts. The sound has changed for modern times, but they still have that Fourth Era sound to an extent.
Seventh era - Hammill has said the current form of Van der Graaf Generator has finished, but many fans say there maybe yet another lineup change... we all wait in anticipation. Personally I think Jaxon may leave the band, but it could also be Hugh Banton...
Edited by Geck0 - May 22 2006 at 03:52
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Dick Heath
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Posted: May 22 2006 at 05:23 |
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And of course Hammill and Fripp do punk together on Stranglers & Friends Live
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VanderGraafKommandöh
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Posted: May 22 2006 at 08:45 |
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Oh, is Fripp in that as well? Nice, I may have to check that out, especially if it's like The Stranglers (which wasn't that punk and they should be on the archives!), who I quite enjoy.
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Jmoog
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Posted: May 22 2006 at 10:29 |
According to Hammill when Fripp recorded his guitar solo for "The Emperor" he specifically wanted to play the solo without ever having heard the song. Robert Fripp didn't do any of the writing for VDGG. He simply came in and played solos on "The Emperor" from H to HE and the very end of "Plague" from Pawn Hearts. The guitar on Lemmings is played by Peter Hammill.
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I Adore Mellotrons
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bucka001
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Posted: May 22 2006 at 15:28 |
ivansfr0st wrote:
What I wanted to ask, was Pawn Hearts greatly influenced by Fripp's presence or his past work with King Crimson? Did he even write the parts he played?
-- Ivan |
Fripp played a very small role in the making of Pawn Hearts (and no role at all in the writing of it). The album would have been pretty much the same without him. He can hardly be heard on it (there's a small bit during the "Alone, alone the ghosts all call" bit of Lighthouse Keepers). When I interviewed the VdGG members for the book, Hugh didn't even remember that Fripp was on that album!
The leads at the end of Lighthouse Keepers ("We Go Now") are actually played by Banton on the organ.
This is all covered in-depth in the VdGG book at
and
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jc
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fogwalker
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Posted: May 22 2006 at 16:00 |
Rocktopus wrote:
On Peter Hammill's fantastic solo album 'The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage' Randy California of Spirit adds some disharmonic guitar sounds not unlike the way Robert Fripp does. Especially on the song 'Red Shift'.
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Well I'll be! I always thought its WAS Fripp playing on Red Shift - you live and learn, eh?
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The Wizard
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Posted: May 22 2006 at 16:05 |
Dick Heath wrote:
And of course Hammill and Fripp do punk together on Stranglers & Friends Live |
I have that album and it also has Steve Hillage and Nik Turner. Highly recommended.
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Trickster F.
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Joined: February 10 2006
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Posted: May 22 2006 at 16:15 |
bucka001 wrote:
ivansfr0st wrote:
What I wanted to ask, was Pawn Hearts greatly influenced by Fripp's presence or his past work with King Crimson? Did he even write the parts he played?
-- Ivan |
Fripp played a very small role in the making of Pawn Hearts (and no role at all in the writing of it). The album would have been pretty much the same without him. He can hardly be heard on it (there's a small bit during the "Alone, alone the ghosts all call" bit of Lighthouse Keepers). When I interviewed the VdGG members for the book, Hugh didn't even remember that Fripp was on that album!
The leads at the end of Lighthouse Keepers ("We Go Now") are actually played by Banton on the organ.
This is all covered in-depth in the VdGG book at
and
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That's ironic! Seeing as how the casual prog fan gets into VDGG, knowing that "Fripp played on that one album"!
-- Ivan
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Sean Trane
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Posted: May 23 2006 at 09:28 |
GeckO wrote:
Seventh era - Hammill has said the current form of Van der Graaf Generator has finished, but many fans say there maybe yet another lineup change... we all wait in anticipation. Personally I think Jaxon may leave the band, but it could also be Hugh Banton...
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Pure speculation of course, but if I had to guess on this one I would say Banton >> by reading the VdGG book, the mishaps on the roads (bad luck and illnesses always fell upon him) and his organ business is still taking his time.
Added to the fact that he was theone that Hammill least used for his solo record (given the fact that Hammill also played KB and therefore did not need another KB player)
Edited by Sean Trane - May 23 2006 at 09:28
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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BaldJean
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Posted: May 23 2006 at 11:00 |
bucka001 wrote:
ivansfr0st wrote:
What I wanted to ask, was Pawn Hearts greatly influenced by
Fripp's presence or his past work with King Crimson? Did he even write
the parts he played?
-- Ivan |
The leads at the end of Lighthouse Keepers ("We Go Now") are actually played by Banton on the organ. |
that's very interesting; I always thought the solo was played by Fripp.
Hugh Banton certainly captured Fripp in style as well as in sound
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 A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Ghandi 2
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Posted: May 23 2006 at 14:52 |
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Yeah, on the Godbluff DVD they perform A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers without Fripp and it doesn't even sound like there's anything missing. (I haven't heard the studio version; I am borrowing the DVD)
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Fripp's influence on VDGG...
