"In the Court" the first real prog album?

Was KC's "In the Court of the Crimson King" the first real prog album ever, as is often said? The problem is in the definition for progressive music. Was it really the Beatles, The Moody Blues or Procol Harum who were first? IMHO The Beatles were progressive in a way, so their presence on this site is just, but if you define progressive music as music that will hardly hit the charts, often containing long tracks, mostly instumental, with a high rate of "anti-notes", King Crimson was certaintly the first band to release a real "prog" album with a capital "P" !!!

 

Edited by LakesideRitchie

LakesideRitchie wrote: Was KC's "In the Court of the Crimson King" the first real prog album ever, as is often said? The problem is in the definition for progressive music. Was it really the Beatles, The Moody Blues or Procol Harum who were first? IMHO The Beatles were progressive in a way, so their presence on this site is just, but if you define progressive music as music that will hardly hit the charts, often containing long tracks, mostly instumental, with a high rate of "anti-notes", King Crimson was certaintly the first band to release a real "prog" album with a capital "P" !!!

Progressive will hardly hit the charts? Nope. Lots of progressive rock albuns from seventies were number one or at least in Top 40.

Long tracks? Not at all. Gentle Giant rarely did songs over 7 minutes and they are for sure progressive.

Mostly instrumental? There is no relation between the progressive and the instrumental parts. Some songs like The Battle of Epping Forest, Thick as a Brick, A Passion Play, Most of the Zappa work for example, have huge lyrics and the instrumental parts don't last too much.

Well, if you define progressive rock the way you said above, ok. The problem is that those things mentioned are not the characteristics of progressive rock for great part of progressive rock fans. And the term was created when these bands were all mainstream and lots of other bands were considered progressive rock.  The definition is more subjective than objective and it was made almost 40 years ago, so it's difficult to us now determine what is progressive rock or not. To some, maybe Genesis, Yes, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, Emerson, Lake and Palmer and King Crimson don't fit in his own definition of progressive rock. But we all know that Yes, Genesis, Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Jethro Tull, etc. were synonym of progressive rock at their time and even nowadays.

First prog album? CERTAINLY!

Best prog album? maybe ....

People need a place to start and this album, which hit the 25 spot in America was a popular album and this a place to start.  I think there is a problem when you start to define the history of a genre by the points of entry into the mainstream or to limit it by key moments or artists.

The Court was one of the earliest recordings to use 16 tracks.  Sgt. Peppers used eight and before that the Beatles used four. In its day, it must have made quite an impact.  Instrumentally it is unique for a rock album.  Ian McDonald used a range of reeds including the bass clarinet, which Miles had used on Bitch's Brew. With the layered tracking it is quite interesting.  Michael Giles is also one of the great (the great) prog rock drummers. His use of the cymbals and reliance on the tom toms is quite innovative. He often does not play a basic rock beat but comes up with an interesting way to create a rhythmic track with the cymbals, snare, toms and highhat. Bruford learned a lot from him, I am sure. The use of the mellotron throughout it also quite distinctive.  It often has these repetitive themes that give it an ethereal, surreal quality and grants the album a contemplative pallette.

 

It is strange that people consider the jazz aspects of this album as innovative when it is really only the opening track that has an extended jazz-like solo and the instrumental stuff on this album is not something that you would hear in jazz, I don't think so at least. That whole choppy rhythymic bit, for example. It is something you would hear in progressive rock.

Well, I think the Moody Blues albuns are unique instrumentally too, see the quantity of instruments played and their complete integration to the songs (for example, sitar is much better incorporated than in Beatles). The use of Mellotrons as Crimson uses was first made by Moody Blues.  They strenghtened the use of wind instruments in rock (most of their early songs have flute, some of them long passages).  Many consider Days of Future Passed the first prog. Others think it is Sgt Peppers. Others Zappa's Freak Out.  If anyone can listen to Seventh Sons' album Raga, will see that it is pretty progressive (indo-folk genre), and it is from 64. 

I think the main importance in this discussion is to not consider any of these albuns the first pure progressive and so on. Because many people has prejudice against the bands considered "proto-prog" because they think every band will sound just psychedelic like Sgt Peppers, while, of course, The Nice, Procol Harum and Moody Blues were miles ahead The Beatles at those times.

IMO, ITCOTCK was the first great Progresive Rock album, but not the first prog album, the Prog Rock start with those bands of the end of 60's. The best doesnt mean the first.

Of course, what matters to me is that I have all the Moody Blues, Procol Harum and King Crimson albuns from that time.

The first prog album was Days of Future Passed by the Moody Blues, clearly.

King Crimson's In The Court of The Crimson King is easily the most progressive album in all of prog, it created symphonic prog, heavy metal, and vocal distortion at the same time. Was it first? That's hard to say. I would call it the most prog out of early prog, and the best.

Days of Futures Past- Moody Blues. The blueprint of progressive rock.