Phil Collins - Is He Any Good?

I got into a big argument with a guy at the pub over the weekend about Phil Collins. His contention is that he was a talentless arse (I'm being polite here) and was responsible for the 'sound of the 80's' with that gated reverb drum sound.

Naturally, I sided with Mr Collins on this one stating that even though he has contributed some absolute howlers; his drumming is beyond reproach and his early solo stuff is wonderful.

Next time I see him, I 'be slappin da man

He had his moments before Collins the showman kicked in and become overwhelming. I like quite a bit of Collins in Brand X - although British critics went on about over-use of hi-hat. All that theatrical training as a kid was used to put on a show (for instance I enjoyed his Hot Tub gig at Nottingham) and also displayed on some of those extended live tracks which can only be found on 12" single releases, e.g. where Turn It On Again, took in  covers of 60's rock and Dream Theater's greatest hit. However, Phil Collins with big jazz orchestra is something I can't take.

Spot the deliberate mistake.

Phil Collins kept Genesis alive and therefore gets my thanks for excellent albums such as A Trick Of The Tail and Wind And Wuthering.Without PC Genesis would have folded as soon as PG left.However I truly wish Genesis had disbanded in 1981 before delivering the excerable Abacab and turning into a pop group.Collins must take his share of the blame for that as well.

I don't think there can be any doubt that the guy is extremely tallented. Even though I don't appreciate much of his solo stuff, or the way he dragged Genesis away from prog, I have to admire what he's achieved.

We should however be grateful to him for taking what was a very brave decision when he stepped up to the mike for Genesis. Without him, I doubt if we'd have had "Wind and Wuthering" or "Trick of the tail", so credit where it's due.

(I like how in RichardH' s post he's abrieviated the name to PC, and the "intelligent" link offers a Dell PC!) 

I dont think he did anything wrong between 1971 and 1980. Brilliant drummer, an integral part of the classic Genesis sound. Liked his voice too.

I liked some of his work with Brand X, but have hated every song he has recorded on his own. I have heard all his solo albums, and I think they are rubbish, without exception. I used to get teased at school for liking Genesis, not because they were prog rock, but because Phil Collins was in them, and he had recorded 'You cant hurry love' and other such musical monstrosities. You can hardly blame the teasers, Genesis sounded like PC's backing group after 1982.

He has turned his back on creative, meaningful music and has chosen a life of celebrity; red carpets, awards ceremonies, bimbo brides and gold jewelery. What makes it worse is that he is so keen to get his boat (face, for non UK forumers

) in wherever he can. He was even duped by Channel 4's Brass Eye team along with other such celeb fools in the Alan Partridge league, like Noel Edmonds..

Anyway, I rant

Blacksword wrote: I liked some of his work with Brand X, but have hated every song he has recorded on his own. I have heard all his solo albums, and I think they are rubbish, without exception. I used to get teased at school for liking Genesis, not because they were prog rock, but because Phil Collins was in them, and he had recorded 'You cant hurry love' and other such musical monstrosities. You can hardly blame the teasers, Genesis sounded like PC's backing group after 1982. He has turned his back on creative, meaningful music and has chosen a life of celebrity; red carpets, awards ceremonies, bimbo brides and gold jewelery. What makes it worse is that he is so keen to get his boat (face, for non UK forumers ) in wherever he can. He was even duped by Channel 4's Brass Eye team along with other such celeb fools in the Alan Partridge league, like Noel Edmonds.. Anyway, I rant What happened to one of the best rock/jazz drummers in the world??, and how did he get away with taking Genesis from 'Foxtrot' to 'Invisible touch' Didn't Tony Banks notice what was happening???

OK just a bit harsh.  I think the rest of Genesis was on board his "boat" that set sail for the land of fame and fortune. At least none of them jumped ship in protest did they ?  I think the band itself did the greatest injustice not by turning to pop but by completly turning it's back on the fans that kept them afloat for all of those years by not playing live any of it's music pre 1980. It is what  ticked me off and I stopped buying albums and going to see them live.  Oh, if someone had their album I would listen just to see what they were doing but I think I jumped off their bandwagon just as everyone else in the world was jumping on. You cannot lay that all at the guy with the round head's feet. That was a band decsion. I think poetic justice for Genesis is this the last thing you see on the Wembly viedo is them doing copy tunes.  That is a fitting end for that era of the band. So Charlie Brown uh Phil Collins is what he is.

 Oh and to say he did something wrong by choosing what he did?  Man, I didn't know there were rules attached to this anywhere?

(To be honset I saw the Charlie Brown reference elsewhere.)

Well, maybe I'm going against the general opinion, but I do enjoy some of Phil's solo output. In my opinion, the guy put out some of the best pop material from 1981-1989. Yes, it's not prog, but who's to say that if it's not prog, you can't enjoy it? Now, since then, that's a whole different story!

But I have to chime in and agree with Garion: Genesis, at the time of their popularity, consisted of three members, not just Phil. Tony and Mike were just as much to blame as Phil for taking that particular direction. And I do think that the albums from 1978-1983(And Then There Were Three through the Mama album) were fine pop albums as they were. However, Invisible Touch is one of the weakest efforts any former prog band has ever ventured to produce, and We Can't Dance...forget it! That album is mostly rubbish with a few shining gems scattered throughout.

The problem, I think, with Phil's solo work is that it not only goes against the fans who were there at the incarnation of Genesis(and followed their work when they were a prog band), but he also burned out rather quickly(his solo work started going downhill after But Seriously.) The man hasn't put out anything even faintly resembling prog or even fine written pop in many years. It's really sad, because it's very obvious the guy is talented. He just stopped giving the fans what they wanted.

No doubt PC is a great drummer, no doubt he was an acceptable emergency vocalist during ATOTT and W&W, but everything he did after that is crap IMO.

But his participation in ATOTT and W&W is highly overrated, hose alnums were good because Steve Hackett was in Genesis, when Steve let Genesis died, they shoud have changes their name in order to leave intact the memory of a great band as Genesis.

Garion81 wrote:

I think the band itself did the greatest injustice not by turning to pop but by completly turning it's back on the fans that kept them afloat for all of those years by not playing live any of it's music pre 1980

I agree, but it's not only that Genesis turned their back on the fans that supported them when all the rest of the world hated their music, but the fact that Phil Collins always attacked the loyal fans and made jokes about them.

In one or two concerts he insulted the fans who asked for older material and every chance he had was used to talk $h!t about prog' rock and their fans.

He used the Earth Win & Fire metals just to make more commercial the music, even when Tony asked him not to do that, he said he could make some wind sound with his keyboards, but no, Mr Collins wanted Genesis to be a POP band and to try to leave behind any prog' memory

Iván

Excellent drummer, reasonable singer (most of the time).

A trick of the tail is a masterpiece, fully worth to be ranked with the best of the Gabriel era. Wind and wuthering was already less interesting, and from a prog point of view it went downhill all the way since then.

Still, there were isolated songs that the Collins' Genesis made afterwards which are still great to listen to (but they're simply not prog). Follow you follow me, Land of confusion, Jesus he loves me, as examples, or a solo effort like In the air tonight.

An interesting question though: did they go the commercial pop route at the expense of their prog career, or did they notice themselves that from a prog point of view they were hitting a dead end (see the continuing decline of quality before they actually jumped the shark) and decided to change course?