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Marwin View Drop Down
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Points: 166 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: 1 star ratings
    Posted: December 29 2005 at 04:03
I have been following the ongoing debate about the ratings without reviews without taking really caring that much for it but today i saw something that really upset me. These ratings are from The Gathering - Mandylion record

1 stars Rating by Ricky @ 10:42:33 AM EST, 12/28/2005

1 stars Rating by exorcist @ 10:50:12 AM EST, 12/28/2005

I know that with records like CTTE and Darkside there will be trolls that vote 1 star but those albums allready have alot of positive feedback. Now Mandylion has 9 ratings so those two 1 stars really lower the rating of the album. Mandylion is one album i really think deserve a 5 star rating, and i would really like to know the reason behind those two ratings. If they have a reason behind giving it 1 star i can understand but now those ratings just anoy me.

I think that ratings without reviews should be removed!!
 
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Norbert View Drop Down
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Points: 2506 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2005 at 04:49

I agree. There are a lot of orks and trolls like that Carles,Tamtam,Gershvin who constantly try to lower ratings. Average of ratings witout review are always lower than the average of the reviewer's

ratings.
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Jared View Drop Down
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Points: 19374 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2005 at 09:58
Originally posted by Norbert Norbert wrote:

I agree. There are a lot of orks and trolls like that Carles,Tamtam,Gershvin who constantly try to lower ratings. Average of ratings witout review are always lower than the average of the reviewer's

ratings.

I would say they have a greater tendancy to be either a 1 or a 5 star rating without a review...
Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2005 at 10:00

Originally posted by Marwin Marwin wrote:

I have been following the ongoing debate about the ratings without reviews without taking really caring that much for it but today i saw something that really upset me. These ratings are from The Gathering - Mandylion record

1 stars Rating by Ricky @ 10:42:33 AM EST, 12/28/2005

1 stars Rating by exorcist @ 10:50:12 AM EST, 12/28/2005

I know that with records like CTTE and Darkside there will be trolls that vote 1 star but those albums allready have alot of positive feedback. Now Mandylion has 9 ratings so those two 1 stars really lower the rating of the album. Mandylion is one album i really think deserve a 5 star rating, and i would really like to know the reason behind those two ratings. If they have a reason behind giving it 1 star i can understand but now those ratings just anoy me.

I think that ratings without reviews should be removed!!
 

 they have to be removed.
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Gentle Ronnie View Drop Down
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Points: 540 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2005 at 11:58
Either remove *ALL THE RATINGS* without reviews or do nothing and cope with the idea that people have a right to dislike music as much as you have a right to enjoy it.
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2005 at 12:35
Of course we would have to remove all those ratings.
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Menack View Drop Down
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Points: 16 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2005 at 13:10

*jumps in the discussion*

I think the right thing to do is letting only regisered users vote and/or review. I do think that ratings without review should be removed, but allowwing only registered users to vote the numbers of trolls would probably fall considerably. Of course, doing this may affect the popularity of the site, but it'd for the best, wouldn't it?
Take my word for it.
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2005 at 13:22
^ another approach would be not to count these ratings.  Seriously, this could work - tell people that they don't need to write something in order to voice their opinion - it will be listed on the album page. But if they want their rating to be used for calculating statistics, they'll have to provide a little more than an username and a number.
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Easy Livin View Drop Down
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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2005 at 14:45

I've actually suggested that to M@X Mike. Ratings without reviews does remain an issue. I'm hopeful that something will be done about them reasonably soon. Maybe not a complete removal of them, but perhaps something which diminishes their impact.

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salmacis View Drop Down
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Points: 3928 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2005 at 15:50
I propose a solution (one I've mentioned a few times in recent threads..). If they aren't to be removed altogether, I think they should be totally discounted from an album's overall rating as then we get a more appropriate, reliable and credible overall review of an album.
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Pafnutij View Drop Down
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Points: 415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2005 at 06:53

The "rating without review" function should definitely be removed. The prog charts are a great idea but until you neutralize the various tamtams plaguing this site, they're worthless.  
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Easy Livin View Drop Down
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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2005 at 09:08

Just to explain once again why ratings without reviews are allowed.

 

The view is that some people either do not speak English sufficiently well to write a coherent review in English (per the site rules). Others find it very difficult to put into words what they feel about an album, and do not wish to look foolish or as they see it tarnish the site with a poor review. The owners of the site(*) are committed to allowing as many people as possible to actively participate in the site, even if it is just by recording their rating for the albums which are listed here.

 

There are over 15,000 ratings without reviews. The site owners feel that to remove these, or simply ignore them would be unfair to those who have taken the trouble to record their views. The vast majority of these ratings reflect the submitter's sincere views of the album being rated.

 

The site owners are however aware of the controversy surrounding ratings without reviews, and are looking at how best to address this. This will take a little time, there are more important things to be dealt with, and everything must take its turn. Rest assured, a solution will be found, but please be patient.

 

Speaking personally, I have said many times that I do not like ratings without reviews. I feel that if they are to be included, their impact on features such as the chart and the average ratings should be reduced (say 50% of a rating supported by a review), or removed with the rating appearing for information only on the album page.  

 

(* For those who do not know, the owners of the site are M@X and Proglucky. I am not speaking on their behalf here, simply conveying their thoughts as I understand them)

 
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W.Chuck View Drop Down
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Points: 606 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2005 at 14:06
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:


The view is that some people either do not speak English sufficiently well to write a coherent review in English (per the site rules). Others find it very difficult to put into words what they feel about an album, and do not wish to look foolish or as they see it tarnish the site with a poor review. The owners of the site(*) are committed to allowing as many people as possible to actively participate in the site, even if it is just by recording their rating for the albums which are listed here.<o:p]</o:p]



Well, I agree with you, many people don't speak english very well and have problems to express, but the worry of looking foolish or something like that is not a reason for me. You can chose a name you want and that name doesn't have to be in any content with the reviewer's person. So they don't have to be embarrassed, because nobody knows them!

I also think there should be another algorithm, inculding those "rating-only-reviews", but to minimize their influence on the whole result!

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pirkka View Drop Down
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Points: 191 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2005 at 04:13

Removing ratings without a review is not a good idea. Why? Because you (a common man) write a review when you have a good reason: you have listened to a GOOD record ar a BAAD record. When you listen to an average record you have not so much to say. But you might want to express your feeling and just give a 2 star or a 3 star rating. Most of the review I have read are 4 or 5 star (==reviewer really liked the record).

Only way to get the ratings really mean something is to have enough of them so that the nonsincere get lost in the crowd.

You might think of splitting the ratings in two categorys:

1) ratings with review and their average 

2) ratings without review and their average

br Pirkka



Edited by pirkka
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2005 at 05:38
^ How about only counting collaborator reviews for the front page? This could be expanded in the future ... so that visitors can chose which ratings to take into account, and the default would be collaborators.
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Ricochet View Drop Down
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Points: 46301 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2005 at 05:42
I'm repeating myself,but I will say it again:

REVIEWS WITHOUT RATINGS HAVE TO GO...

This site should promovate only reviews,not simple ratings...you don't have what to say about that album,don't say.
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2005 at 06:14

Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

I'm repeating myself,but I will say it again:

REVIEWS WITHOUT RATINGS HAVE TO GO...

This site should promovate only reviews,not simple ratings...you don't have what to say about that album,don't say.

Some people have a lot to say, but just don't speak/write english. I agree with you though. Like said above, the best compromise would be to list, but not count those ratings.
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Ricochet View Drop Down
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Points: 46301 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2005 at 06:16
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

I'm repeating myself,but I will say it again:

REVIEWS WITHOUT RATINGS HAVE TO GO...

This site should promovate only reviews,not simple ratings...you don't have what to say about that album,don't say.

Some people have a lot to say, but just don't speak/write english. I agree with you though. Like said above, the best compromise would be to list, but not count those ratings.



That would be a good compromise,but can it be done?
 

BTW I'm not the author of this:

1 stars Rating by Ricky @ 10:42:33 AM EST, 12/28/2005

Edited by Ricochet
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2005 at 06:20
I don't think it will be done soon, as Max is busy with other things. But I'm sure that it's a good solution. The most important thing is that it would take away the motivation to enter manipulative ratings.
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W.Chuck View Drop Down
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Points: 606 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2005 at 08:10
Hmm, but I don't know if those peoplecan be taken serious...If there are no reasons for their rating, they are senseless, for me it is important to be informed about an album. "Rating-only-reviews" are disturbing...,
nobody really interests for them and whats the point in looking at some stars, with nothing behind it?
So not counting it would be good, but what is the sense of those ratings then, if they aren't counted?

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