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USA Men's Soccer. Pochetino?

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moshkito View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 04 2024 at 08:57
HI,

USA/Berhalter

Now that I am an American, I can say that I have been a fan of the USA team for many years, and have seen a lot of disappointments along the way. But, for many years, I saw the team play hard and not quit, and at least you knew that the effort was there.

Soo, with that sad, it was very disappointing to see the team play against Bolivia and simply cruise like they were whiffing on something or other, instead of paying attention to the game and trying to be even better than they appeared.

It was strange, to see this "golden crayon colored" group of folks play ... I kept thinking about the likes of Howard, Dempsey, Keller and so many others that gave their all and were able, now and then to get a massive win ... but since the days of Klinsman (the idealist), the team has only played teams that would be considered mid-table by almost all of us ... thus the desire and ability to play better to beat a stronger team, never really developed ... and of course ... playing stupid, not realizing from past years how the CONCACAF teams played to hurt and disappoint (specially in their home turf -- throwing urine onto the field!!!) ... that Panama was not going to be easy, and they had to be careful and aware of the threat ... nope ... they went at it like ... I have no words for it, and after the red card, you saw a team fight a little but mostly it was to get the ball out of our half, and nothing else.

It is sad, that USA Soccer is going to take forever to make a decision, when time is already a factor towards the next World Cup, but in the end, I don't think that USA Soccer cares, and I can only hope/think that they will embarass themselves in the World Cup, and this will FINALLY cause a massive shake up in the whole thing, by putting WINNERS in place instead of idiots that are not exactly qualified to be there in charge of USA Soccer. These are also the same folks that do not support the Women's game, although selecting a coach that might make a difference, seems to be an interesting choice, but not something that they will do for the men's team ... gotta keep the program going ... the same as it has to bring up the folks that are now playing ... sadly, while doing well in Europe, they have not learned the hard facts of the Concacaf history to the USA team and how many teams conspire to make sure the USA does not make it ... as has happened at least once in a game that was given away, to ensure the USA did not get to the World Cup. 

This is a problem with the folks, and their knowledge of history ... of the games the USA has played ... but then the USA team is afraid to play the South American teams, and learn to get better, or play some more European teams so they can learn to play harder, and better ... so instead, we get to watch Colombia and Uruguay make passes twice faster than the USA can and catch the defense not organized, which is what this game is about ... but the USA thinks that driving the Model T forward is the only way to get a score, never mind that the opposing teams defense is laughing ... go ahead ... the defense is waiting for you.

I don't know what is needed, but the current manager is definitely not it ... and I think that his "process" likely has too much SECOND GUESSING on what the players do or did, and this casues a lot of hesitancy when playing a better team. 

In the end, it is not exactly the "system" that wins ... it is how the individual players are setup to succeed, and Berhalter ...  is not the capable coach to make that happen ... go USA ... go USA ... hopefully not to the trash can!


Edited by moshkito - August 15 2024 at 09:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King of Loss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2024 at 14:26
He should deserve to be sacked. Horrible tactics, but if they hire another coach, they might still get the same results.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2024 at 18:10
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

He should deserve to be sacked. Horrible tactics, but if they hire another coach, they might still get the same results.

Hi,

I think the USA group in charge is the problem, and like Mexico, they will not attract many folks because the coach/manager can have no say or control of much of anything. The USA group is a bunch of wannabe's controlling the game, and many of them should not be there ... but I don't see the USA improving that much past Berhalter any time soon within my lifetime. 

They would need to take a giant step that they are not willing to take! And they did not learn their lesson, or even listened to Klinsmann, who wanted to do tougher games, but the group would not do it, so he ended up playing games with them. He's the only one that is talking about playing tougher games for the team to get tougher and better ... but somehow, no one else even thinks that's important. The USA will never get better until they play the Europeans and the Latin Americans more frequently, and on the day they take the top of Concacaf by a mile, will be the day that we might see some sunshine.

Until then, I have my doubts about the USA team! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2024 at 09:58
Hi,

Not sure about this choice for the USA team, but I'll await a few games.

His record, I think shows he has had a bit of an issue with the big prima donnas, when he had Neymar, Mbappe and Messi to work with ... you would think that he would get all kinds of trophies during that time. All he did was eventually alienate the stars and have them go somewhere else sooner than later. Then you look at an Argentine coach and how he made room for his "stars" ... and they provided the promised land! I doubt Pochettino can do that! And GB never understood that once a good team figured out your positioning and tendencies, they would punish you for that! A "system" is only as good as an opposing team can not figure out how to get around it!

I don't know his coaching very well, but his failing in the Premier League is not a good sign for me ... a little more fight and stronger finish with Chelsea would have suggested a better coach that had a good instinct for helping his players get better. I don't know that he will be that good developing the American side any more/better than it is at this time ... I think that aside from a handful of players, the American players are slightly better than average, but not really that great ... or the biggest teams in the world would be knocking at their door every minute of the day! But no ... almost all of them are in mid-table teams that are not going very far, and the USA players have not shown a whole lot of special abilities that would have them be looked at by bigger teams ... which is a measure to a point.

I think that the American team as coached by GB was too stuck on its "formation and placement" to the point of taking away some of the ability of the best players in the world to free float in their area and find some moments for good results ... instead, we got a team that slowed everything DOWN ... which of course helped any defense out there get organized ... and in Europe and Latin America, your ability to score in those situations is ... lucky ... at best, and dependent on one or two special abilities by someone ... the one in a month kind of ability that gets a score!

Best of luck, I say, but ... all in all ... I'm not sure that Pochettino is going to be better than GB at all ... though we hope that the team plays in Europe a bit more so they can get better acclimate to tougher opposition than the easier stuff that GB selected ... to pad his record ... and make it look like the team was improving ... and all of a sudden against teams that don't think the USA is that good, take a serious hurting!

I would rather play France or Spain non stop until the results are even ... it might take a few years, but the players will learn quickly that they can not stink and play Statue of Liberty in their place on the "system".

Gosh, I thought that Jose Mourinho at least, knew how to set up folks to go forward, and he gave Pep a hard time in a lot of games a long time ago! And the USA was too stupid to have picked up Tata Martino and let him go to Mexico, which was one of the worst places for him! I thought he would have been magnificent for the USA, and still do, but he is having too much fun with a few folks in Miami now to give a damn!


Edited by moshkito - August 15 2024 at 10:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2024 at 10:18
That's a surprise as he was on the FA's shortlist as a potential replacement for Gareth Southgate! But they decided to go with Lee Carsley short term and wait and see if Klopp or Eddie Howe might become available. 
I like Pochettino. Failing at Chelsea is not really an issue. They are the proverbial 'basket case' club that just goes out and buys anyone and then hopes it will work out like it does at Real Madrid. The thing is though , RM mostly buy the best players. Chelsea are a 'puffed up' club that bares no relation to any reality IMO.
Poch had a great record at Spurs where he took them to a Champions League final. He was sacked not that long after for reasons that are none too clear to me. He possibly could have done better at PSG , they failed to win Ligue 1 which for them is a bit of a disaster. He couldn't quite bring home the Champions League for them either. 
He is a top class coach. I would have taken him for England although still hoping for Klopp or Howe. At the end of the day he won't be able to perform miracles for USA if they don't have the players.
BTW fantastic start for Emma Hayes with the USA women at the Olympics. She could manage the men in the future so perhaps MP will just be keeping the seat warm!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2024 at 21:12
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

...
BTW fantastic start for Emma Hayes with the USA women at the Olympics. She could manage the men in the future so perhaps MP will just be keeping the seat warm!

Hi,

I was thinking that as well earlier in the week ... it seemed like none of her moves on the field backfired ... and my word ... that is a sight to enjoy and appreciate! And her choice for the team, specially leaving out at least one big name, ends up looking like she made the right call ... I think that would be a large credit to her ability to feel out the players and how they will work together? AND, of course, put them in situations to succeed. I think GB was too slow to allow the players to move and catch the defense not set ... and that was one thing that was happening a lot in the Women's game ... they moved forward ... AND FAST!

I think that is what the men need!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2024 at 23:07
^ 'High Press'' is now the big tactic in soccer. Emma is a great thinker and could become the first female to bridge the gender gap in the game and coach a mens team. However she herself has poured cold water on the idea and even suggested that it's insulting to the womens game to have this kind of talk. She has a point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2024 at 08:28
I think Pochettino is good. He impressed me during his spell at Tottenham. He was a bit hit and miss later but always gave me the impression he knows what he is doing. I think he can do better with an underdog team than if everybody expects him to win almost everything like at PSG. Also at Tottenham at the end the bar was raised too high; after him the team wouldn't be up to what they did during his tenure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2024 at 10:14
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

^ 'High Press'' is now the big tactic in soccer. Emma is a great thinker and could become the first female to bridge the gender gap in the game and coach a mens team. However she herself has poured cold water on the idea and even suggested that it's insulting to the womens game to have this kind of talk. She has a point.

Hi,

I was thinking that the first woman to coach a men's team is going to be under such incredible attention by many folks in the news media to the point of it being distracting, and likely not good for the team, or the game itself.

However, I think the gender things is slowly coming around ... As I mentioned Emma's choices and adjustments in her games at the Olympics is beyond what any American team has seen in the men's or women's teams, and that deserves some attention and a serious look/understanding by the American Federation in terms of selecting folks to coach the USA, specially the younger teams, that are still not going far enough ... for all the talent, they still miss it when it counts, and this might just go back to their ability to play tougher teams in Europe and South America. But it also likely means that the American game is still young and not defined, and designed ... and that most coaches are playing a "system" completely unaware that if the opposition recognizes it, they can break it down quickly. And this happened too much to the American teams. That's immature coaching, and the European teams are laughing at that, and even Mexico's folks doing something almost the same. 

For all the television and out ability to SEE IT ALL, it is like we spend more time ignoring it, than learning from it! Even the American football teams in the NFL are very good at working with the TV shots ... but the soccer teams are too stupid to know how to do that? I know why ... because you have to let go your system at half time, and your intelligence is convinced that the system is better than that!

The US Federation has to start scheduling tougher competition to get the players to improve, instead of them being stuck to a format/system that never really improved anything for the past several years ... and we could/should have addressed that when comparing the games and the coaching with other countries ... the USA was grossly blown out by the Netherlands, who knew the USA was a 2nd rate team, and I think that in Copa America, Panama took it to the USA in the same style as the Europeans ... and the USA folded! That falls on the coach and his ability to get better and stronger ... it was all imaginary based on a system/format that had not worked and the Federation should have told GB to either improve it or leave!


Edited by moshkito - August 17 2024 at 06:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2024 at 00:43
I'm not a football coach but generally 4-2-3-1 is by far the most popular system. However some international teams with less talented individuals do very well with an old fashioned 4-4-2. If you are going for a defensive approach and not looking to attack then that is a good way of playing. However it's very inflexible. The top coaches seem to like 4-3-3, Soutgate generally went that way although he experimented with 3-4-3 as well but decided he didn't like it (most coaches seem to come to that conclusion, as it's also highly inflexible). I don't see that much innovation in soccer coaching. It's more about how you use your substitutions that can make the big difference and the after that who has the biggest cheque book. Be 'pro active' and ahead of the curve and also the ability to switch systems is also a great tool to have in the toolbox to unlock teams.
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