Yes - "We make believe"

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There is an album listed on the Yes pages called "We make believe". This apparently is not an official release, but a bootleg containing work in progress from the aborted second album by Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe. This material was never officially released, and the album is therefore a bootleg which appears to have been credited to Yes to boost sales (no legal ownership of the "Yes" name issues for the bootleggers!).
My thoughts are:

I think I am right in saying (though no doubt I’m wrong!) that this is the only bootleg listed on the site. Should it be here at all?
If it is worthy, should it be listed under ABWH, notwithstanding the fact that it is attributed to Yes?
Once again, if it is acceptable for bootlegs to be listed, should they be clearly marked as such in the listing?
My own views are that bootlegs should not be included in the site. If it this one is to be included, the "marketing" naming should be ignored and the album listed under ABWH, with a notation that it is a bootleg.
We have discussed the virtues and vices of bootlegs before. What I’m looking at here is, should there be a place for them on this site.

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Easy Livin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585	Topic: Yes - "We make believe" Posted: July 27 2004 at 15:18
	There is an album listed on the Yes pages called "We make believe". This apparently is not an official release, but a bootleg containing work in progress from the aborted second album by Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe. This material was never officially released, and the album is therefore a bootleg which appears to have been credited to Yes to boost sales (no legal ownership of the "Yes" name issues for the bootleggers!). My thoughts are: I think I am right in saying (though no doubt I’m wrong!) that this is the only bootleg listed on the site. Should it be here at all? If it is worthy, should it be listed under ABWH, notwithstanding the fact that it is attributed to Yes? Once again, if it is acceptable for bootlegs to be listed, should they be clearly marked as such in the listing? My own views are that bootlegs should not be included in the site. If it this one is to be included, the "marketing" naming should be ignored and the album listed under ABWH, with a notation that it is a bootleg. We have discussed the virtues and vices of bootlegs before. What I’m looking at here is, should there be a place for them on this site.

richardh Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28283	Posted: July 27 2004 at 15:25
	I'm puzzled why Unofficial Bootlegs are on the site at all.Official ones are fine with me though.

James Lee Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 05 2004 Status: Offline Points: 3525	Posted: July 27 2004 at 16:13
	Whoa, that's a tough question. Is this a discussion of the morality of bootlegs or just whether they fit on a list of band recordings? Having lugged a Marantz deck and microphones to several Dead shows (a practice known and fully sanctioned by the band, with specific limitations), I know firsthand that bootlegs often contain new songs, impromptu jams, or versions superior to the official releases- pretty significant stuff for a fan. I know of at least one situation where the band has officially accepted bootlegs as part of their recorded history. However, I've seen bootleg lists that make me want to run and hide because there's so much to sift through, with no prevailing standard of quality (hours of listening to comments and clapping from the folks nearby really wears on you!). Even without bootlegs on this site, there's bands with intimidating discographies (Hawkwind alone has crossed the triple-digit mark with just 'official' releases). I'd have to say that bootlegs (like detailed band histories or merchandise) are more than we need at this particular site. Anyone who is a fan can pretty easily find this stuff elsewhere. Edited by James Lee


emdiar Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: June 05 2004 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 890	Posted: July 28 2004 at 04:05
	The term "official bootleg" irritates me. This oxymoron was invented by record company salesmen as a way of making the fan think they're getting a bit extra, a treat that they shouldn't really have, but hey, "I'm worth it!". The best bootleg I own is "The Twelve Towers At Dawn", Yes, Wembley Stadium, 1978. This is as good quality as a live album gets, bootleg or not. I would not be offended if I found it on the archives. http://forgottenyesterdays.com/boots.asp?mType=14&ftype= 1&gid=186
	Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.

Man Overboard Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: November 07 2004 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 3830	Posted: August 19 2005 at 16:16
	Though I'm a bit on the fence with the bootleg issue, I just found this particular album, and it's an interesting bit of work. Now if only I could find the post-Cynic "Portal" demos

chopper Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 20030	Posted: August 19 2005 at 16:32
	Surely "offical bootleg" is an oxymoron. I don't think boots should be on here at all, personally. There's probably thousands of Yes bootlegs for a start.

Man Overboard Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: November 07 2004 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 3830	Posted: August 19 2005 at 16:34
	The reason "We Make Believe" is an interesting bootleg is because it's not a "live concert" boot, it's the unfinished demos of the second ABWH album, which was never released.