a few words about Beethoven's 5th symphony

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   warning: after reading this you will never be able to listen to Beethoven's 5th symphony the same way again. I will put in a few blank lines so you don't read it by accident. continue at your own risk.

Beethoven's 5th symphony has one of the most famous and most cited openings in all of music; everyone has heard this "dadada-dah" (three Gs and an E-flat, by the way). according to an anecdote by Anton Schindler, Beethoven's secretary and factotum, Beethoven pointed at the notes for this opening and said: "so klopft das Schicksal an die Pforte!" ("thus fate knocks at the portal!"), which is why this symphony is also called "Schicksalssymphonie" ("Fate Symphony"). but is this true? I don't believe it at all.

the 5th symphony was written between 1804 and 1808. Beethoven's health was deteriorating (he most likely suffered from the effects of lead poisoning; soluble lead salts were regarded as a panacea back then and were found in all kinds of products like soap, salves and pills. he also suffered from alcoholic cirrhosis), he couldn't hear anymore, and his constant change of residence (in 43 years Beethoven changed his place of residence more than 70 times) was certainly not beneficial to his health either. he also lived in the constant fear of poverty, which was unfounded; Beethoven left a considerable fortune after his death (about 150,000 Euro in modern currency). he was also widely regarded to be rough and ill-mannered.

so Beethoven was probably pretty fed up when he wrote this symphony. and these four syllables mean "leckt mich am Arsch!" (German for "kiss my ass" in the plural form; literally it means "lick me at the ass". however, back in Beethoven's days the expression was "leckt mich im Arsch" meaning "lick me in the ass", so a bit more drastic). the exclamatory way of these four famous notes in the composition leave no doubt about this in my mind. 

it is understandable that Anton Schindler did not want to convey this expression, which is why he came up with his euphemism.

there, I warned you. from now on when listening to Beethoven's 5th symphony you will always hear what Ludwig REALLY tried to tell you when he wrote it

Edited by BaldJean - May 29 2022 at 04:14

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BaldJean Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10387	Post Options Post Reply Quote BaldJean Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: a few words about Beethoven's 5th symphony Posted: May 29 2022 at 04:04
	warning: after reading this you will never be able to listen to Beethoven's 5th symphony the same way again. I will put in a few blank lines so you don't read it by accident. continue at your own risk. Beethoven's 5th symphony has one of the most famous and most cited openings in all of music; everyone has heard this "dadada-dah" (three Gs and an E-flat, by the way). according to an anecdote by Anton Schindler, Beethoven's secretary and factotum, Beethoven pointed at the notes for this opening and said: "so klopft das Schicksal an die Pforte!" ("thus fate knocks at the portal!"), which is why this symphony is also called "Schicksalssymphonie" ("Fate Symphony"). but is this true? I don't believe it at all. the 5th symphony was written between 1804 and 1808. Beethoven's health was deteriorating (he most likely suffered from the effects of lead poisoning; soluble lead salts were regarded as a panacea back then and were found in all kinds of products like soap, salves and pills. he also suffered from alcoholic cirrhosis), he couldn't hear anymore, and his constant change of residence (in 43 years Beethoven changed his place of residence more than 70 times) was certainly not beneficial to his health either. he also lived in the constant fear of poverty, which was unfounded; Beethoven left a considerable fortune after his death (about 150,000 Euro in modern currency). he was also widely regarded to be rough and ill-mannered. so Beethoven was probably pretty fed up when he wrote this symphony. and these four syllables mean "leckt mich am Arsch!" (German for "kiss my ass" in the plural form; literally it means "lick me at the ass". however, back in Beethoven's days the expression was "leckt mich im Arsch" meaning "lick me in the ass", so a bit more drastic). the exclamatory way of these four famous notes in the composition leave no doubt about this in my mind. it is understandable that Anton Schindler did not want to convey this expression, which is why he came up with his euphemism. there, I warned you. from now on when listening to Beethoven's 5th symphony you will always hear what Ludwig REALLY tried to tell you when he wrote it Edited by BaldJean - May 29 2022 at 04:14
	A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta

mellotronwave Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: January 30 2021 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 11582	Post Options Post Reply Quote mellotronwave Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 29 2022 at 06:13
	dadada-dah" (three Gs and an E-flat, by the way) funny transcription ;-)

mellotronwave Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: January 30 2021 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 11582	Post Options Post Reply Quote mellotronwave Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 29 2022 at 06:14
	"lead poisoning; soluble lead salts were " kaka " saturnism"