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Orfeo
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Joined: July 21 2004
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Topic: Most important to define music as prog? Posted: September 22 2005 at 11:14 |
Hi all,
I made a mistake with the other instance of this poll.
Please VOTE HERE.
Thanks
O
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rockandrail
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Joined: September 22 2005
Location: France
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Posted: September 22 2005 at 11:22 |
I am the first to vote. Unusual song structure. why?
Because IMHO, what defines prog rock from the rest of rock is that it is not based on a standard "song" structure (verse-chorus-verse-chorus-verse...). None of the other categories are exclusive to prog and none are enough to define the genre
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Pierre R, the man who lost his signature
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magog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 06 2005
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Posted: September 22 2005 at 11:25 |
Good question, in these last weeks I saw an enlarged number of prog bands...maybe not all of them are really! (of course Deep Purple are not but a classical wonderful old-fashioned rock band)
I said classical influence, but coud have been jazz influence,
camera music influence, popoular music ...structure and melody are
important as well, and a particular sound of instruments (my idea of
prog is almost completely linked with 70's)
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: September 22 2005 at 11:32 |
It's impossible to name a single element - it's always a combination, and depending on the situation some are more important than others.
I think that the most important thing for me is that the musicians use the appropriate elements to "implement" the music they are imagining in their minds. That means that they don't confine themselves to genres too much, or to the style they are known for etc.
If the song demands a piano ... use a piano, even if up to this moment the band never used one. The same applies to song structure, melody, tempo, ... everything.
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Hamatai
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Joined: July 05 2005
Location: Ukraine
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Posted: September 22 2005 at 17:44 |
Probably, Unusual rythmic figures from the listed above.
But for me the real music masterpiece (prog or not prog doesn't matter)
is incomparable emotional message from the author to the listener
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cuncuna
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Joined: March 29 2005
Location: Chile
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Posted: September 22 2005 at 18:35 |
That's a very hard question. The conceptual aspects on the way one chooses to create music should be a very important element. For me, it has much more to do with this than moog presence. It has to be an experiment on some level.
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¡Beware of the Bee!
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Prodigal
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Joined: September 18 2005
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Posted: September 22 2005 at 23:40 |
Complexity sets prog apart. But that's my personal opinion.
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Starette
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2005
Location: New Zealand
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Points: 502
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Posted: September 23 2005 at 01:55 |
Its a mix, really, but unusual song structure is the best hit I suppose.
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50 tonne angel falls to the earth...
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chopper
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Posted: September 23 2005 at 07:54 |
rockandrail wrote:
I am the first to vote. Unusual song structure. why?
Because IMHO, what defines prog rock from the rest of rock is that it is not based on a standard "song" structure (verse-chorus-verse-chorus-verse...). None of the other categories are exclusive to prog and none are enough to define the genre
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I think you're right up to a point but there are classic prog songs that have this standard structure e.g Roundabout is pretty much verse-chorus-verse-chorus-middle 8-solo etc etc. Also a lot of the songs on Lamb Lies Down on Broadway do as well.
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krauthead
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Joined: May 30 2005
Location: Sweden
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Posted: October 17 2005 at 14:33 |
Unusual song structure
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*Dancing madly backwards on a sea of air* - Captain Beyond
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Certif1ed
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Posted: October 17 2005 at 15:40 |
I don't think there is a single most important element - it's all in the mix as they say.
For me, what defines prog is the number and sustainability of those moments where identifiable prog elements all come together and fuse into something beyond mere rock music - it's usually a band effort, and it doesn't have to be complex at all;
For example, a simple chord sequence but with added "soft sixths" played on a guitar, with contrapuntal walking bass and lightly detuned Mellotron, topped off with a flute, leading to a single note played on a guitar and held shimmering in space for several seconds can be more proggy than intense serialism and random free-style jazz fusion with 13/16 time signatures, polyrhythms and multiple simultaneous key signatures.
For a start, most of the latter was done in the 1920s in Avante-Garde music - so it's not really progressive. Anyone can count. And free-style jazz has been done to death over the last half century or so - well before rock'n'roll was born.
Structure is quite important too though - if the structure jumps out at you as a standard rock song, then the piece clearly has to work pretty hard in the other elements to be convincing prog, IMO.
It's also about creating something new - literally progressive - or as new as it can be, given that rock music is currently 50 years old. Being progressive means it stands out above the horde that went before and does not just one, but many things that show a new way of presenting old material combined with a good understanding of that old material to underpin it.
It must be about presenting old material, since recorded notes are at least 1,100 years old and drums even older.
And it's about the ROCK as well.
'coz that predates drums!
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horza
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 31 2005
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 2530
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Posted: October 17 2005 at 15:51 |
prog-ish-ness
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Originally posted by darkshade:
Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.
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eduardossc
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 15 2005
Location: Mexico
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Points: 257
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Posted: October 17 2005 at 15:58 |
Well driven, justified, colourful, original, clever, creative and touching diversity.
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: October 17 2005 at 16:17 |
I'm going to agree with the mass group voting for unusual song structure. This is the most defining element of progressive music, because this is one thing that every progressive band has. Between Progressive Rock, Progressive Metal, and what some know was Progressive Jazz, each song or album has a unique structure. Structure is what brings me personally to progressive music. In the age of "pop" music, songs are being lowered to a simple verse-chrous-verse style of structure. In progressive music, the creative possibilities are limitless because of the ability of musicians to keep a song moving forward. Progressive songs are always going somewhere. Non-progressive songs just kind of state themselves and the listener is waiting for the next song to start.
As i said structure is the only definate for every progressive band. Just looking at the list, not every progressive band is going to be using Moog or other synth sounds. Many progressive bands don't even use synths.Classical does not influence many progressive bands either. Yes, many progressive bands are classically influenced, but there are many jazz and blues oriented progressive bands. Song length is somewhat similar to, but not always a definate for progressive music. It seems that structure is really the only thing that is universal about progressive music.
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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