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SteveG View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 12:09
^ Why is Nero running? I'd vote for Nero over Trump any day. He would be such an improvement that the US government would almost seem normal.
The bottom line is this: No good works by the Orange Duce can ever exonerate his racism, fear mongering and total lack of concern for the truth. Now who would really cause the death of millions? Me or Trump?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 12:15
I hate Trump as much as the next guy, more so if he is a Trump supporter, but is Trump definitely a racist? He panders to racists/ white supremacists, which seems opportunistic to me, but I don't know his ideological views when it comes to race issues.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 12:43
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I hate Trump as much as the next guy, more so if he is a Trump supporter, but is Trump definitely a racist? He panders to racists/ white supremacists, which seems opportunistic to me, but I don't know his ideological views when it comes to race issues.

Its hard to say exactly what he is, but there is no doubt that he appeals to racists, bigots and white supremacists. You can go through this thread and see plenty of that. For instance, most of ompha's pro trump sources are alt right media personalities with nazi leaning ties.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 12:52
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I hate Trump as much as the next guy, more so if he is a Trump supporter, but is Trump definitely a racist? He panders to racists/ white supremacists, which seems opportunistic to me, but I don't know his ideological views when it comes to race issues.

Its hard to say exactly what he is, but there is no doubt that he appeals to racists, bigots and white supremacists. You can go through this thread and see plenty of that. For instance, most of ompha's pro trump sources are alt right media personalities with nazi leaning ties.


You'll get no argument from me there.   It's obvious to me that he appeals to such people and that he has pandered to them. He is opportunistic, seems amoral and sociopathic, and he is guilty at least by association. They only thing I'm very sure of that he stands for is himself.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 13:02
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I hate Trump as much as the next guy, more so if he is a Trump supporter, but is Trump definitely a racist? He panders to racists/ white supremacists, which seems opportunistic to me, but I don't know his ideological views when it comes to race issues.

Its hard to say exactly what he is, but there is no doubt that he appeals to racists, bigots and white supremacists. You can go through this thread and see plenty of that. For instance, most of ompha's pro trump sources are alt right media personalities with nazi leaning ties.


You'll get no argument from me there.   It's obvious to me that he appeals to such people and that he has pandered to them. He is opportunistic, seems amoral and sociopathic, and he is guilty at least by association. They only thing I'm very sure of that he stands for is himself.

Most dangerous of all, he seems to have a strange magnetism for the under-educated and naive.
Looking at the political conservatives I know personally, which is a lot around here, the educated conservatives and conservatives of moral principal are the ones that seem to reject him the most.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 13:33
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I hate Trump as much as the next guy, more so if he is a Trump supporter, but is Trump definitely a racist? He panders to racists/ white supremacists, which seems opportunistic to me, but I don't know his ideological views when it comes to race issues.

Its hard to say exactly what he is, but there is no doubt that he appeals to racists, bigots and white supremacists. You can go through this thread and see plenty of that. For instance, most of ompha's pro trump sources are alt right media personalities with nazi leaning ties.


You'll get no argument from me there.   It's obvious to me that he appeals to such people and that he has pandered to them. He is opportunistic, seems amoral and sociopathic, and he is guilty at least by association. They only thing I'm very sure of that he stands for is himself.

Most dangerous of all, he seems to have a strange magnetism for the under-educated and naive.
Looking at the political conservatives I know personally, which is a lot around here, the educated conservatives and conservatives of moral principal are the ones that seem to reject him the most.


As Trump himself said "I love the uneducated." He seems quite good at conning the very naive, and some of those supporters who can see his less than virtuous qualities, such as his consistent bullsh**ting, think it's brilliant strategy or just don't care. There are indeed many educated conservatives of moral principle who utterly reject him.

Tangential notes:

We had a house guest recently who adores Trump (and Duterte for that matter). My wife went to university with her in Manila and the were both active members of the Pentecostal Church, her friend remains very born again Christian religious. My wife's aunt, also from the Philippines, lives in LA, and stayed there illegally before marrying an American and is a very staunch Trump supporter. She openly despises the Mexicans and is very anti-immigration and pro-deportations.

The Conservatives I tend to meet here in so-called Canuckistan tend to be fundamentalist Christians, and I have noted quite a lot of Trump sympathy from such people irregardless of race.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 13:42
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I hate Trump as much as the next guy, more so if he is a Trump supporter, but is Trump definitely a racist? He panders to racists/ white supremacists, which seems opportunistic to me, but I don't know his ideological views when it comes to race issues.

Its hard to say exactly what he is, but there is no doubt that he appeals to racists, bigots and white supremacists. You can go through this thread and see plenty of that. For instance, most of ompha's pro trump sources are alt right media personalities with nazi leaning ties.
 


LOL.  Still trying to paint me as a Nazi with your opinion and absolutely no facts.  Why does that not surprise me? LOL   You're such a stranger to facts Easy money that you prove my point by offering up zero concrete evidence to back your view.  I should post a photo of myself with my best friends.  We're so ethnically diversified, that we look like a large table of United Nations members slumming it at an American Chain food restaurant.   We are all smiles and we love each other!   

One of the guys (HA Goodman) that I listen to the most... wrote over 100 pro Bernie Sanders articles for major publications before 2016 election.   After DNC cheated Sanders and his supporters out of Democrat 2016 Primary , Goodman walked away from the Democrat Party.  The Democrat Party cheats and lies.

Before Hillary cheated Sanders... Goodman list 10 reasons in 2 minutes...Why only Bernie Sanders can beat Trump!  


Rush Fan "H.A. Goodman" after he walked away from Democrat Party





Edited by omphaloskepsis - November 06 2018 at 14:47
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 13:43
well just got back from doing my civic duty.

Should be an interesting evening...  the reports from other states and early voting were extremely large turnout.. approaching presidential..

worked today near a voting location ..and it was a mass of people from opening till we left..

and went to my voting spot.. normally like the last Presidential election.. I walked in and out...  there was a line outside the door. Talked to a volunteer.. she said she had NEVER seen turn out like this for an offyear election.

note I live in a deep blue area... with no compeititive races.  People are just motivated to vote!  A great sign.

now what will be interesting...  are we going to see a repeat of 2016 ...  where the polls misread the general mood.  Already seeing some thought that polls did not take into account early voting and democratic enthusiam.  

will be interesting to see if polling has improved from 2016.. or they blew it again  and the Senate much more in play than it might seem based on polls.. and limited ones in comparison to a presidential election at that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 14:47
yowsers!!! Here is what is going on in Colorado. That i suppose is the bane of polling.. as we learned in 2016..it measures preference.. doesn't measure the actual desire and enthusiasm (or lackthereof) to get out and vote.

Some more observations on CO ballot returns   Dem 18-34 ahead of 2014 number by 45,700 Unaf 18-34 ahead of 2014 number by 44,700 Rep 18-34 trail of 2014 number by 1,600
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 14:55
This fiscally responsible but socially liberal framework is what unites many independents and centrists. It is a common-sense combination that is out of step with the base of both parties.

I find this article very compelling as it really describes how I feel politically.  https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/05/opinions/what-independents-are-really-rebelling-against-avlon/index.html
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 15:00
It seems to me what we're looking at for 2020 is: Was the Trump election a mass experiment in Popular Nationalism that didn't go down as well as voters hoped, or is it a deeper tendency in the US to be fearful, xenophobic and fanatically redneck.   I can't tell anymore--  you don't have a Barack Obama winning twice with well over 50% followed by the election of a Mussolini-like strongman without massive sociopolitical swings and an almost completely unpredictable national mood.

Sometimes things do seem to hang on voter turnout more than political atmosphere.   Only explanation that makes sense.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 15:13
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I hate Trump as much as the next guy, more so if he is a Trump supporter, but is Trump definitely a racist? He panders to racists/ white supremacists, which seems opportunistic to me, but I don't know his ideological views when it comes to race issues.
Have people become so immune to Trump's antics that his racism is now questioned? Greg, Trump has no spoken ideology other then calling himself a nationalist, which in itself has racist overtones. But this is simple logic: If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's a duck. But to illustrate, here's the latest Trump racist rant and backlash as told by the NY Times:


Even Fox News Stops Running Trump Caravan Ad Criticized as Racist


Luis Bracamontes as he learned in court in March that he would receive the death penalty for the murders of two police officials in Sacramento.CreditCreditRandy Pench/The Sacramento Bee, via Associated Press
Major television networks and Facebook have taken the unusual step of rejecting an inflammatory ad by President Trump’s political team that effectively closes a fiercely fought midterm campaign with a message portraying immigrants as a violent threat.

The 30-second political spot, which mirrors the president’s apocalyptic warnings about a caravan of asylum seekers in Mexico, was widely denounced as racist and misleading after Mr. Trump shared a longer version of it last week.

NBC and Facebook, both of which had run the ad over the weekend, reversed course after a backlash on Monday and announced that the commercial would be removed, saying it fell short of their in-house advertising standards. CNN had refused to air the ad from the start, calling it “racist.”

Even Fox News, which has made warnings about the migrant caravan a staple of its prime time coverage of the midterms, felt compelled to distance itself from the ad. The network’s president of ad sales, Marianne Gambelli, said in a statement that the network had stopped airing it on Sunday. “It will not appear on either Fox News Channel or Fox Business Network,” she wrote.Mr. Trump, for his part, said he was unaware of the controversy.“You’re telling me something I don’t know about,” he told reporters on Monday before boarding Air Force One. “We have a lot of ads, and they certainly are effective, based on the numbers that we’re seeing.”

Asked about critics who called the ad offensive, Mr. Trump replied: “A lot of things are offensive. Your questions are offensive a lot of times so, you know.”

Divisive, over-the-top political ads  are the hallmark of this year’s age-of-rage midterm battle, as candidates across the country accused their opponents of being terrorists, criminals, and in one case, deserving of a golf spike to the face.

[As the midterm elections near, read about how Trump is bringing up immigration as an issue.]

But Mr. Trump’s ad, which aired on NBC’s “Sunday Night Football,” the top-rated program, sparked a particular outcry — and a debate over the limits of paid political speech hours before voters head to the polls.

The actress Debra Messing, whose show “Will and Grace” airs on NBC, wrote on Twitter that she was “ashamed” that her network “aired this disgusting racist ad.” The film director Judd Apatow, who has made movies at NBC’s corporate sibling Universal Studios, called it “a low point in the history of NBC.


Trump Suggests Ad With False Claim Has Been ‘Effective’President Trump responded to a reporter’s question about whether a controversial midterm campaign ad focusing on immigration was offensive, saying that “a lot of things are offensive.”Published On Credit Doug Mills/The New York Times


He also said that the Trump campaign could benefit.“The day before the election, there’s not enough time to air the ad and have it make a difference,” Mr. Castellanos said. “But if it becomes controversial, a lot of people will see it who otherwise would not.”

The rejected commercial features footage of an undocumented immigrant from Mexico, Luis Bracamontes, bragging about his murder of two California police officers in 2014. Ominous music plays, followed by images of the caravan that originated in Central America.

“Dangerous illegal criminals like cop-killer Luis Bracamontes don’t carabout our laws,” the ad said. The final onscreen message: “Stop the caravan. Vote Republican.”

On Monday, NBCUniversal said that “after further review” the ad would no longer be shown because of its “insensitive nature.” The network had previously approved the ad, which aired during a matchup between the New England Patriots and the Green Bay Packers, and several times on the cable news channel MSNBC.

Facebook, which had been paid by the Donald J. Trump for President campaign to target the spot in electoral battlegrounds like Florida and Arizona, issued a similar note. “This ad violates Facebook’s advertising policy against sensational content so we are rejecting it,” a spokesman said, adding that users were still free to post the video on their personal pages.

Many studies have shown that immigrants do not drive an increase in crime. And Mr. Bracamontes is not known to have any association with the caravan of migrants walking north.

He also features in a longer version of the ad that the president posted on Twitter last week, which falsely claimed that Democrats let him “into our country” and “let him stay.” In fact, Mr. Bracamontes had been deported during the Clinton and Bush administrations, but repeatedly made his way back.

The 53-second version, which Mr. Trump has featured atop his Twitter page, has been viewed about 6.5 million times.

CNN dedicated substantial coverage to the longer ad, with anchors and onscreen graphics declaring it misleading and “racist.” That prompted a rebuke from the president’s son, Donald Trump Jr., who told his Twitter followers that CNN “won’t talk about real threats that don’t suit the agenda.

He added: “Remember this on Tuesday. #vote.

[Read about how Trump-fed conspiracy theories about the migrant caravanintersect with deadly hatred.]

Mr. Trump has made the caravan a central campaign theme, describing it as an “invasion of our country” in an effort to stoke anxieties about immigration. He has ordered more than 5,000 active-duty troops to the border in preparation for the migrants’ expected arrival in the coming weeks.

The caravan was once said to have 7,000 people, but more recent estimates put the number at fewer than 3,500.

Jason Kint, the chief executive of Digital Content Next, a trade group that represents entertainment and news organizations, said the reaction from the networks and Facebook could end up amplifying Mr. Trump’s closing argument, rather than smothering it.

Because of the controversy, he said, the ad was “spreading like wildfire — for free.”

Reporting was contributed by Daniel Victor, Sapna Maheshwari, Edmund Lee and Kevin Roose.

A version of this article appears in print on , on Page A1 of the New York edition with the headline: Media Giants Recoil From Caravan Ad Called Racist.


Edited by SteveG - November 06 2018 at 15:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 15:17
I once considered myself a moderate who saw good points about both parties.  though always a Democrat for the social issues. but like more than a few I suspect.. the very dark turn of the Republican Party into a party of hate and division and white retrenchment which was only culiminated by Trump.. has done much to drive me further to the left or more to the point.. become extermely anti-Republican in that party's current condition as being against.

I'm not sure how well progressie economics ala Warren will work... I'm not naturally predispoed to it. being a more social rather than economic warrior if you will....but i think we will soon be finding out.  It might work or it might not.. I'm open to trying it and seeing what happens. I think that can and will be a winning strategy in 2020. Can it be much worse than the decades of failed attempts of conservative economic policy made by rich people FOR rich people.... which has destroyed the middle class and made the rich just richer.

it will be interesting to see what happens when the enemy is not the working class.. but the monied and entitled...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 15:49
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Bernie Sanders is not a democrat. Bernie is an independent socialist and that's why the Dems allowed Hillary to stole the nomination from Sanders.   I hated Bush. The Dems didn't change names but they changed into Big Corporation sucking, war mongering Bush*tes.

Um, Bernie ran for the Democratic nomination. He was close to being the leader of the party. He still is a major voice in the party. Yes, he is an independent, but he caucuses with the Democrats. I myself was an Independent, for a real long time, then I joined the Green Party. Only once I moved to Oklahoma where there was no Green Party did I join the Democratic Party, but in actuality I've been voting for Democrats, since I've been voting. Bernie is as least as much a Democrat as I am.

I concur with your annoyance with over Corporate Democrats. I would like to have a civil war in the Democratic Party, but in my view, until the Right shrivels up into inconsequence, we are prevented from doing that. In the meantime, I make compromises as I have always done. Any one of the small animals of the woodland forest would be preferable to Trump.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 15:55
^ and my tea leaves are reading correctly.. you will soon have your civil war within the party. The Repubicans have had theirs.. and the extreme side won. I suspect the same will happen with the Democrats. Thus sort of answering the onus of Scott's article...  both sides will have pushed out their moderate centrist elements who will likely unite and in time take the place of the dying white retrenchment anti minority and otherwise ideologically bankrupt Republican party as our 2nd major political party.

One can argue that has already started.. but due to the uniting effect of hating Trump even more than the mere distrust of each other now..... I don't think it explodes into full view into 2021 when the party likely wlll have what the Repubicans had for 2 years ..  complete keys of power..


Edited by micky - November 06 2018 at 15:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 16:29
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

^ and my tea leaves are reading correctly.. you will soon have your civil war within the party. The Repubicans have had theirs.. and the extreme side won. I suspect the same will happen with the Democrats. Thus sort of answering the onus of Scott's article...  both sides will have pushed out their moderate centrist elements who will likely unite and in time take the place of the dying white retrenchment anti minority and otherwise ideologically bankrupt Republican party as our 2nd major political party.

One can argue that has already started.. but due to the uniting effect of hating Trump even more than the mere distrust of each other now..... I don't think it explodes into full view into 2021 when the party likely wlll have what the Repubicans had for 2 years ..  complete keys of power..

Not really much of a civil war on the Republican side. They just kind of bent over and took it. I don't know which would inherit the name, Democrat. It doesn't matter. It could be the corporatists, while the left goes elsewhere. I have confidence that where moderate Democrats are at, and given how corporate America has evolved, that anti-minority will not be able to infiltrate their ranks without shedding their anti-minority views. There are many who view moderate positions as inherently more correct simply because they have the virtue of being moderate. The problem is that moderation is relative. Moderates in America are conservatives in Canada. There are times when moderate positions are inadequate and only an extremely left position measures up to the problem. I submit to you that climate change is one such issue. Cap and Trade, even if we change course and embrace it, will not be an adequate response to the problem.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 16:44
and first votes rolling in... and happens to be one of the bellweather contests as to my wondering if preeletion polling learned anything from 2016. The senate race there... polls had it a toss up. If Donnelly runs away late with teh urban/educated suburb vote...  I'll say it. The Senate is in play more than popular wisdom has it for polling underestimed Democratic energy and potential turnout. If the polling correct..  yeah Republicans will likely hold the Senate as the Dems would,in order to win, draw a straight flush with the electoral math they were up against this election cycle. Of course Trump will spin that as 'saving the Senate' but anything short of not gaining 4 seats with that map they had this year would be a huge loss.  For the Senate map in 2020 is extremely favorable for the Dems to make big pick ups...

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

^ and my tea leaves are reading correctly.. you will soon have your civil war within the party. The Repubicans have had theirs.. and the extreme side won. I suspect the same will happen with the Democrats. Thus sort of answering the onus of Scott's article...  both sides will have pushed out their moderate centrist elements who will likely unite and in time take the place of the dying white retrenchment anti minority and otherwise ideologically bankrupt Republican party as our 2nd major political party.

One can argue that has already started.. but due to the uniting effect of hating Trump even more than the mere distrust of each other now..... I don't think it explodes into full view into 2021 when the party likely wlll have what the Repubicans had for 2 years ..  complete keys of power..

Not really much of a civil war on the Republican side. They just kind of bent over and took it. I don't know which would inherit the name, Democrat. It doesn't matter. It could be the corporatists, while the left goes elsewhere. I have confidence that where moderate Democrats are at, and given how corporate America has evolved, that anti-minority will not be able to infiltrate their ranks without shedding their anti-minority views. There are many who view moderate positions as inherently more correct simply because they have the virtue of being moderate. The problem is that moderation is relative. Moderates in America are conservatives in Canada. There are times when moderate positions are inadequate and only an extremely left position measures up to the problem. I submit to you that climate change is one such issue. Cap and Trade, even if we change course and embrace it, will not be an adequate response to the problem.



hahahah..  yes you are right about that.  Not as much a shooting war as one side laying down and spreading its legs for the other...  look no further than the preeminent moderate Senator from Maine who was brow beat to support Kavanaugh by the far right.

I do think the Democratic civil war will be far bloodier than the Republican one was however. The one thing you can say about Republicans are they are united.. and stay united.. even if being led over a cliff.

As I've posted numerous times on the subject... the youth, energy and passion are on the left.. the extreme of the party if you want to call it that. That will carry it the party to victory in 2020.. but they will want the fruits of victory to follow that. Both wings agree strongly on social issues.. it is the economic issues that will divide them and likely drive out the corporate/econonomically conservative Democats from the party. Wh0 knows what will happen.. but I do see that exact scenarios as being extremely probable.


Edited by micky - November 06 2018 at 16:46
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 17:33
all over the country... people are motivated to vote. That is awesome


Hamilton County, Ohio (Cincinnati) -- 320k votes cast so far. Forget comparing to midterm -- that's only 90k votes short of the 2016 PRESIDENTIAL vote. And polls are still open for another 45 minutes, and those standing in line will also get to vote.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 17:40
and looking like Babs is going down in Virginia.. might be the first 'callled' flip of the evening... the stupid Obamacare repeal vote .. you know.. those silly promises and dog whistles.. the bill came due for those.. 

bit her squarely in the ass.  The funny thing.. that is one of the top 5 wealthiest disricts in the country..  nice to see people still care about the greater good.. not only getting only theirs....

good riddance babe...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 17:47
Yeah that Comstock race is shaping up well, too early maybe but impressive so far.   She looks like an old girlfriend... good riddance is right.

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