American Politics the 2016 edition

An interesting article. As Clinton has surged in polls, Democrats chances to win the senate have actually fallen a tad

Equality 7-2521 wrote: The T wrote: npjnpj wrote: It looks as if it's fairly safe to assume that Donald Trump is safely out of the way, which, of course, leaves an almost equaly-sized problem: Hillary Clinton as president. From her past track record, one of her first actions in office will probably be to legalize corrruption before moving on to less important things such as stability in the Middle East etc. How on earth is the world going to deal with that? Sorry but this sounds like a Fox News comment. Not one accusation of corruption has been proven. The email thing is stupid and a horrible mistake. Hillary (which has million flaws especially as it has been said here in her hawkishness) is painted as ultra-corrupt just because people have repeated it endlessly.  I don't think the email thing is stupid. It's not what Trump makes it out to be though certainly.

I'm not saying being concerned about the email thing is stupid, I'm saying her error and handling of it was stupid. But not criminal. That's what I'm saying. 

Atavachron wrote: Corruption has been a comfortable, even integral part, of U.S. deep politics for many decades.   If Hillary has mastered it, then I don't see a problem.   Emails ?   Tip of the iceberg.

I have this discussion with my younger coworkers all the time David...  it isn't that Hillary is more corrupt.. she is seen as the face OF it and they are sick and tired of it.  If not for Trump..... take my best friend at work.. He LOATHES Hillary... part of it is he more pro-gun rights than I am. Militant he is...whereas I believe regulation and restrictions are not an infrigement on gun owner rights. .

 but even he sees that a Trump presidency could be, likely would be, devastating to this country.. and world.  He'll vote Hillary..  but take his sentiment as a voice of the youth David. They are fed up with politics as usual and want change.  Old farts like us are sort of blasse about it. What politican is not corrupt or beholden to money.. but the youth (god bless them) want a change.

The T wrote: I have to say my concerns for foreign policy are never in the same level as my concerns for public policy inside the US (which I know are affected by the former). That's one reason why I probably am and have been much more in HRC's camp than other more reluctant voters in this side of things...

that is where Teo I deviate from many of my fellow Democrats and leftists.. and have for generations worth.

the more so today...  they (domestic and foreign) are of the same level of importance.  Isolationism is foolish...  non-interventionist policies are foolish. The question is not whether to exert our power.. but to decide when and where are most appropriate and best. Who is going to take care of threats outside our borders? It is a dangerous world out there.  f**king Europe? That is why I am firmly in HRC's camp... as much for her hawkish foreign policy and using our strength (economic, military, diplomatic) as much as her public policy.  These are not the days to retreat into our shells nor to put people who have zero experience in world relations into the White House.

My grandparents might be buried in that cemetery, if it is the one that your quote is referring to. 

Oakland County has a large and strong Republican base.  I live next door in Macomb County which historically has a strong Democrat base with many automotive union workers...although I think that in recent years the Republicans have carved a big chunk out of Northern Macomb county which has a wealthier base of taxpayers.  To the south of us is Wayne County, home of the city of Detroit and a nearly 100% Democrat base.  The many, many years of corruption in the city of Detroit from the days of Coleman Young through Kwame Kilpatrick have brought a very bad reputation to Democrats in this part of the country.  The whites left or were "chased out" of the city and the blacks took over and unfortunately the city turned into the cesspool that it is.  Thus it is all the Democrats fault.  On the other hand, the governor is a Republican, and needless to say, everybody in the country knows what happened in Flint, MI under his watch.  There is a lot of hatred between the members of the two parties here in the state, which I think reflects what is going on a countrywide basis.

I thought my American friends might enjoy the following quote by Niall Ferguson in an excellent article in today's Sunday Times. It goes like this (slightly paraphrased):

"Donald Trump is the Samsung Galaxy 7 of US politics - a phone so hurriedly assembled, it spontaneously combusts. That would make Hillary Clinton the iPhone 7, essentially the same as your current president, but harder to connect to and with inferior mail security.

This joke has already been made on Saturday Night Live.

This came as no surprise. SNL and the election have been essentially fused ever since Alex Baldwin was brought in to parody Trump. Most people now prefer the spoof to the original. Indeed, this may be one of the many reasons why Trump is sliding in the polls. Once you've seen the comic version, the original is disappointingly unfunny.

The American public is fascinated by Trump, but in the way people are fascinated by a really gruesome car crash".

There is, of course, quite a bit more in that vein, but it seems to me to sum up pretty well the Trump side of, what is, to this observer's mind, the most deeply depressing election in living memory.

I think in a few week's time, my mate Micky, and others, will be having more than a few beers to celebrate Ms Clinton's success. I wish her well of it, and, as my mate Dave said on Friday night at the pub, she will be doing extremely well to live through a full term if rumours of her health are even half way on the button.

A thought from me to close. I hope, when making occasional comments, that I have made clear that I regard the thought of a Trumpalot presidency to be akin to a natural disaster. However, equally, I do not think that the other one, that ghastly woman, will do anything whatsoever to pull together what is a deeply divided nation. I see nothing but a lot of trouble ahead, and, if the conservative factions in America can put out an even halfway credible candidate in the future, then all bets are off.

The same applies, by the way, to politics in Great Britain at the moment. Without wishing to reopen the Brexit debate, I strongly suspect that Dean, and other remain supporters, are, rightly as it happens, now foaming at the mouth at the obvious calamity which hapless ministers and advisers are heading towards in the Brexit negotiations. They do not appear to have the slightest idea, and much is driven by party and ideological politics, rather than the common good.

That is, I feel, the pertinent lesson here. The Brexit vote was a backlash against a very complacent elite by a lot of people for whom the economic "miracle" was nothing of the sort. Those left behind sought not only to blame, but to register a protest when they had the opportunity, regardless of the consequences (I include myself amongst such people, by the way, even though I do live what is a rather pleasant and comfortable life. With me, it was the politics, not economic self interest, as such).

The same is exactly true of America. It can be the only credible explanation for a nut job such as Trump. If I were a member of the American political and economic establishment, I would celebrate victory in November extremely soberly, and reflect accordingly.

Edited by lazland - October 16 2016 at 07:40

Yep, not much there to disagree with, Micky. As I said on another thread a while back, politics is certainly becoming interesting again, albeit for not exactly very cheerful or uplifting reasons.

I think in decades to come, in my son's time, not mine, this period will be seen as epoch making in the sense that the system itself is grinding to a halt, and, as ever, will be replaced by something new. The trick for our generation is to ensure that the foundations for that new system are as peaceful as they can be, and for the common good.

Easier said than done, though.................

micky wrote: