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Mr ProgFreak 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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 Posted: August 23 2010 at 09:46 |
 Dean wrote:
Attacking someone for the Religion they choose to follow is bad.
Attacking someone for where they were born is incredibly bad.
Criticising a belief system without attacking the believers is acceptable.
Criticising a country without attacking the people born in that country is acceptable.
Please. Let's keep this civilised.. |
Some people simply see no difference between criticising the religion and criticising the person - this is what makes this thread turn sour IMO. Now, if the offended guys here simply reversed the situation and started making fun of Atheism - that would be fair. But playing the Nazi card because I'm from Germany? I never did something like that to anyone, as far as I can remember. Yes, I once called Iván a fanatic - but that was related to his use of bold/big fonts in posts.
The Bible endorses rape and infanticide. I criticise the Bible for that (among other things). That does *not* mean that I'm accusing all Christians of endorsing rape or infanticide. Come to think of it, I'm not accusing any Christians of endorsing rape or infanticide. If anything, I'm accusing them of praising a book for its moral values which does endorse those things, and then getting offended when someone calls them on what their holy book actually says.
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Trademark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2006
Location: oHIo
Status: Offline
Points: 1009
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 09:56 |
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
Dean wrote:
Attacking someone for the Religion they choose to follow is bad.
Attacking someone for where they were born is incredibly bad.
Criticising a belief system without attacking the believers is acceptable.
Criticising a country without attacking the people born in that country is acceptable.
Please. Let's keep this civilised.. |
Some people simply see no difference between criticising the religion and criticising the person - this is what makes this thread turn sour IMO. Now, if the offended guys here simply reversed the situation and started making fun of Atheism - that would be fair. But playing the Nazi card because I'm from Germany? I never did something like that to anyone, as far as I can remember. Yes, I once called Iván a fanatic - but that was related to his use of bold/big fonts in posts.
The Bible endorses rape and infanticide. I criticise the Bible for that (among other things). That does *not* mean that I'm accusing all Christians of endorsing rape or infanticide. Come to think of it, I'm not accusing any Christians of endorsing rape or infanticide. If anything, I'm accusing them of praising a book for its moral values which does endorse those things, and then getting offended when someone calls them on what their holy book actually says.
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 "Mcbain to base, under attack by commie-nazis" - Rainier Wolfcastle as McBain
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 09:56 |
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When you die its lights out. Fade to black. Into nothingness. The father of afriend described it to me. Electrical activity and then when they brought him back on the third try he came back from the dead
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 10:01 |
^ Agreed. Nothingness isn't so bad ... after all, you won't be there to complain about it. Mark Twain said it best:
"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."
Edited by Mr ProgFreak - August 23 2010 at 10:02
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 10:03 |
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I'm with Mark.
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 10:04 |
Trademark wrote:
I'm a Libertarian, you can't take away my freedom. Oh wait. wrong thread.
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In demanding that I stop criticising your religion, you're effectively trying to take away my freedom. Just saying.
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 10:06 |
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^^ Consider me in as well. Does anyone else find the prospect of either endless praise or endless torture infinitely more scary?
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 10:20 |
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Why can't Jesus play hockey?
Because he keeps getting nailed to the boards. Ha Ha Ha Ha!
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Trademark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2006
Location: oHIo
Status: Offline
Points: 1009
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 10:26 |
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
^^ Consider me in as well. Does anyone else find the prospect of either endless praise or endless torture infinitely more scary? |
Now you're making your choice based on personal preferences. Another change of the rules. Or, are personal preferences "good reasons"? Yours are & mine aren't I guess is the answer.
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 10:48 |
^ your personal preferences are not "good reasons" for me, and vice versa.
I think you're a bit lost here ... you're often trying to oversimplify things, until you can't tell the most basic things apart.
When I complain about hell (and heaven), that's an anti-theist tangent. I don't expect any Theist to change their mind just because I personally think that the prospect of neither seems desirable to me. Nor would that be a major argument in a serious discussion. Look at it as the icing on the cake ... much better and less personal cases can be made against the existence of such places, and when Theists finally say "all good and fair, but you ultimately can't disprove it" one can say "and even if they existed, I wouldn't like them". So not even do I remain unconvinced, even wishful thinking would not affect me in this matter.
Edited by Mr ProgFreak - August 23 2010 at 11:14
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Trademark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2006
Location: oHIo
Status: Offline
Points: 1009
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 11:17 |
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
^ your personal preferences are not "good reasons" for me, and vice versa.
I don't expect any Theist to change their mind just because I personally think that the prospect of both would not be desirable. Nor would that be a major argument in a serious discussion. |
Your own words from page 82 of this thread as to why you opened the thread in the first place.
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
"I still think that posing the question is important in that it can start
a thought process within people who used to think that they're
religious, but who have never given much thought to it." |
So which is it? are you trying to change the mind of the theist or are you not? Changing the rules again.
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 11:22 |
"So which is it?"
Both, of course. If you read both quotes again - and this time think about what I'm saying - then you'll find that they're not contradictory.
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Trademark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2006
Location: oHIo
Status: Offline
Points: 1009
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 11:42 |
Of course, Of course I see it all clearly now. I don't want to change the mind of the Theist, and I do want to change the mind of the Theist. Not contradictory at all. What in the world was I thinking? I even went and looked up the definitions of do and don't just to be sure. (Wikipedia was busy so I had to use an actual reference book) DO: to perform (an act, duty, role, etc.) to execute (a piece or amount of work): to accomplish; finish; complete
DON'T:
contraction of do not.
Then I found this footnote:
* opposites except when Mike says they are not."
Imagine my amazement.
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 12:23 |
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^ See, now you're removing the context in order to make it work.
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Trademark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2006
Location: oHIo
Status: Offline
Points: 1009
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 12:35 |
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I'm not surprised you recognized it. Your rule #5
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 13:19 |
Come one Trademark, you and you anti-german (??) comments are making you libertarians look like crazy insane people 
Wait.... there's a whole thread devoted to that. Nevermind. Not guilty...  |
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Trademark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2006
Location: oHIo
Status: Offline
Points: 1009
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 13:27 |
The T wrote:
Come one Trademark, you and you anti-german (??) |
I'm really not although the reaction was amusing so I let it go. better than a Will Farrel movie. Mike is a bully and is German. it has nothing to do with any other Germans. I've been over there 6 or 7 times for concerts and festivals. Lots of really nice people in my experience. "Listen, don't mention the war! I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right." - Basil Fawlty
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 13:37 |
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Me - a bully? Right, because I have a position that conflicts with yours, and your smut campaign against me is not working. Question to the audience: Who is doing the bullying here?
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 13:37 |
Mike, I am curious...are you sure you are not a closet Theist desperately trying to " come out"? You are searchin endless responses to find the right connection or button? For someone who thinks that there is ' Nothing" and just this, you are certainly putting a lot of energy into disproving Theism. Is it the fact that devoted or religious belief infuriates you?
Do you at least accept that there is no right or wrong answer to this debate? Trying to strip down respondee replys and words structures is merely clutching at straws and exposes a perception of desperation on your part. You are still searchin my firend. Maybe the skeptic in you should try the experience of a seance or such like, at the very least to humor you 
Respect.
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: August 23 2010 at 13:39 |
Trademark wrote:
The T wrote:
Come one Trademark, you and you anti-german (??) |
I'm really not although the reaction was amusing so I let it go. better than a Will Farrel movie.
Mike is a bully and is German. it has nothing to do with any other Germans. I've been over there 6 or 7 times for concerts and festivals. Lots of really nice people in my experience.
"Listen, don't mention the war! I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right." - Basil Fawlty
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Funny how you ignored the libertarian-crazy connection It seems that's a given... 
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