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Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15916
Posted: June 19 2014 at 02:00
cstack3 wrote:
Tom Ozric wrote:
Get 'em Out By Friday has some incredible bass lines from Rutherford. Easily up there with Squire as far as complexity goes......
Thanks for that! I always thought that Rutherford was at least the equal to, if not superior to, Squire in that era.
Rutherford is a superior overall musician, being very competent on 6 string and 12 string guitars as well as bass guitar.
He improved in leaps and bounds for album to album, reaching his pinnacle on Selling England. No denying Squire, Rutherford and Lake were incredible talents on bass. Come to think of it, even gruff ol' Lee Jackson plays some wonderfully complex bass.
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 4287
Posted: June 19 2014 at 02:50
If you compare art, you missed the point, good art is ment to be different. If you are looking for music that is all the same, check fm radio, wondreful similary and bland.
And If you dont like if, dont listen to it, so many others bands out there toexplorer.
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15916
Posted: June 19 2014 at 02:59
tamijo wrote:
<span ="st">If you compare art, you missed the point, good art is ment to be </span><span ="st">different.If you are looking for music that is all the same, check fm radio, wondreful similary and bland.</span>And <span ="st"><span ="st">If you dont like if, dont listen to it, so many others bands out there to</span></span><span ="st"><span ="st"><span ="st">explorer.</span></span></span>
Joined: January 18 2014
Location: Mar Vista, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 4807
Posted: June 19 2014 at 13:35
richardh wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
richardh wrote:
^ I don't know. I think its still possible to like progressive rock and not like one of the main pillars of the genre. Pseudo spiritual lyrics being sung in a ridiculous high pitch is not everyone's cup of tea regardless of how good Steve Howe is.
You mean like Rush....?
but Rush changed
...for the better
More like took a turn for the... Nothing past Grace Under Pressure really grabs me (except some of Clockwork Angels).
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20623
Posted: June 19 2014 at 14:16
Tom Ozric wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
Tom Ozric wrote:
Get 'em Out By Friday has some incredible bass lines from Rutherford. Easily up there with Squire as far as complexity goes......
Thanks for that! I always thought that Rutherford was at least the equal to, if not superior to, Squire in that era.
Rutherford is a superior overall musician, being very competent on 6 string and 12 string guitars as well as bass guitar.
He improved in leaps and bounds for album to album, reaching his pinnacle on Selling England. No denying Squire, Rutherford and Lake were incredible talents on bass. Come to think of it, even gruff ol' Lee Jackson plays some wonderfully complex bass.
You know I read that Lake didn't know how to play bass when Fripp first brought him into KC...and that Fripp essentially taught him. Do you know if that's true...?
At any rate I never really paid that much attention to Lake's playing until he joined ELP. He did some nice things on those early ELP albums.
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Joined: June 21 2006
Location: Switzerland
Status: Offline
Points: 995
Posted: June 19 2014 at 14:42
dr wu23 wrote:
[You know I read that Lake didn't know how to play bass when Fripp first brought him into KC...and that Fripp essentially taught him. Do you know if that's true...?
At any rate I never really paid that much attention to Lake's playing until he joined ELP. He did some nice things on those early ELP albums.
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28029
Posted: June 19 2014 at 16:33
Rednight wrote:
richardh wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
richardh wrote:
^ I don't know. I think its still possible to like progressive rock and not like one of the main pillars of the genre. Pseudo spiritual lyrics being sung in a ridiculous high pitch is not everyone's cup of tea regardless of how good Steve Howe is.
You mean like Rush....?
but Rush changed
...for the better
More like took a turn for the... Nothing past Grace Under Pressure really grabs me (except some of Clockwork Angels).
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28029
Posted: June 19 2014 at 16:37
dr wu23 wrote:
Tom Ozric wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
Tom Ozric wrote:
Get 'em Out By Friday has some incredible bass lines from Rutherford. Easily up there with Squire as far as complexity goes......
Thanks for that! I always thought that Rutherford was at least the equal to, if not superior to, Squire in that era.
Rutherford is a superior overall musician, being very competent on 6 string and 12 string guitars as well as bass guitar.
He improved in leaps and bounds for album to album, reaching his pinnacle on Selling England. No denying Squire, Rutherford and Lake were incredible talents on bass. Come to think of it, even gruff ol' Lee Jackson plays some wonderfully complex bass.
You know I read that Lake didn't know how to play bass when Fripp first brought him into KC...and that Fripp essentially taught him. Do you know if that's true...?
At any rate I never really paid that much attention to Lake's playing until he joined ELP. He did some nice things on those early ELP albums.
Fripp was a remarkably brilliant teacher then considering 21st Century Schizoid Man (and how on earth did you not notice the bass playing on that?!)
Lake played bass in Crimson as a favour to Fripp (according to Lake). Greg was of course a lead guitarist and a very good one at that but Fripp wanted a lead singer and a bass player. I would suppose that Lake was a very quick learner as regards bass.
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
Posted: June 19 2014 at 17:32
jayem wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
[You know I read that Lake didn't know how to play bass when Fripp first brought him into KC...and that Fripp essentially taught him. Do you know if that's true...?
At any rate I never really paid that much attention to Lake's playing until he joined ELP. He did some nice things on those early ELP albums.
You must have read that about Boz Burrell.
Yes, Fripp taught Boz to play after Gordon Haskell quit KC after they made the Lizard album. Boz quit after making one album and one tour and then joined Bad Co.
Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 12732
Posted: June 19 2014 at 21:35
richardh wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
Tom Ozric wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
Tom Ozric wrote:
Get 'em Out By Friday has some incredible bass lines from Rutherford. Easily up there with Squire as far as complexity goes......
Thanks for that! I always thought that Rutherford was at least the equal to, if not superior to, Squire in that era.
Rutherford is a superior overall musician, being very competent on 6 string and 12 string guitars as well as bass guitar.
He improved in leaps and bounds for album to album, reaching his pinnacle on Selling England. No denying Squire, Rutherford and Lake were incredible talents on bass. Come to think of it, even gruff ol' Lee Jackson plays some wonderfully complex bass.
You know I read that Lake didn't know how to play bass when Fripp first brought him into KC...and that Fripp essentially taught him. Do you know if that's true...?
At any rate I never really paid that much attention to Lake's playing until he joined ELP. He did some nice things on those early ELP albums.
Fripp was a remarkably brilliant teacher then considering 21st Century Schizoid Man (and how on earth did you not notice the bass playing on that?!)
Lake played bass in Crimson as a favour to Fripp (according to Lake). Greg was of course a lead guitarist and a very good one at that but Fripp wanted a lead singer and a bass player. I would suppose that Lake was a very quick learner as regards bass.
I actually like better the live version of Schizoid Man with Wetton and Bruford... I feel they took the bass and drums to another level yet. Just awsome.
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20623
Posted: June 19 2014 at 22:09
richardh wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
Tom Ozric wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
Tom Ozric wrote:
Get 'em Out By Friday has some incredible bass lines from Rutherford. Easily up there with Squire as far as complexity goes......
Thanks for that! I always thought that Rutherford was at least the equal to, if not superior to, Squire in that era.
Rutherford is a superior overall musician, being very competent on 6 string and 12 string guitars as well as bass guitar.
He improved in leaps and bounds for album to album, reaching his pinnacle on Selling England. No denying Squire, Rutherford and Lake were incredible talents on bass. Come to think of it, even gruff ol' Lee Jackson plays some wonderfully complex bass.
You know I read that Lake didn't know how to play bass when Fripp first brought him into KC...and that Fripp essentially taught him. Do you know if that's true...?
At any rate I never really paid that much attention to Lake's playing until he joined ELP. He did some nice things on those early ELP albums.
Fripp was a remarkably brilliant teacher then considering 21st Century Schizoid Man (and how on earth did you not notice the bass playing on that?!)
Lake played bass in Crimson as a favour to Fripp (according to Lake). Greg was of course a lead guitarist and a very good one at that but Fripp wanted a lead singer and a bass player. I would suppose that Lake was a very quick learner as regards bass.
It's funny but I never really paid attention to the bass on that track but I did know he was a lead player before but the only band he was in was the Gods....right?
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15916
Posted: June 20 2014 at 00:05
Yep, The Gods, with Ken Hensley (from memory). His bass on Schizoid Man is incredibly complex. He plays amazing lines. His successor, Pete Giles, was also very good. Natural talents I guess. I've played bass for some years and still can't nail Schizoid Man.........(I must be sh*t...... ).
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Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Posted: June 20 2014 at 14:22
Tom Ozric wrote:
Yep, The Gods, with Ken Hensley (from memory). His bass on Schizoid Man is incredibly complex. He plays amazing lines. His successor, Pete Giles, was also very good. Natural talents I guess. I've played bass for some years and still can't nail Schizoid Man.........(I must be sh*t...... ).
It all sounds very convincing... except Lake played bass in The Gods (replacing John Glascock, who later played bass in Tull), I don't believe Lake ever recorded anything with The Gods, his tenure with the band was relatively short.
Prior to that was in Shy Limbs (with Andy McGulloch later of Crimson and Greenslade), where he also played bass, (guitar was John Dickenson), and on this b-side, Lake also sang lead:
...sounds just like Lake's style of bass playing to me (listen to the little bass-break 2:04).
Before the Shy Limbs he was in The Shame, also with John Dickenson and Andy McGulloch. (Shy Limbs and The Shame were most likely the same band with a name-change).
...I suspect that the history has become a little condensed and perhaps anachronistic. It is inevitable that artists and bands from the Poole/Bournemouth/Wimborne area of Southern England in the mid 60s would have know each other fairly well, Fripp didn't ask random musicians he met in London to join Crimson - he invited people he knew such as Lake and McGulloch, who like Fripp came from the Poole/Bournemouth/Wimborne area.
So what we are missing here is when Fripp "taught" Lake to play bass - everyone is assuming it is immediately prior to him joining Crimson, yet the evidence suggests otherwise as he was probably playing bass long before then. One possible scenario is that Fripp had seen Lake play in one of the local bands (probably The Shame) and advised him to switch from lead to bass, and possibly gave him some tips on how to play bass at the same time (which sounds like quite a Fripp thing to do).
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cstack3 wrote:
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