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Dean 
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 Posted: May 02 2013 at 14:13 |
 Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The fact that the things appeared to them as a "typical saucer shaped ufo" is immaterial. That is an imagine pounded into our heads through fictional depictions. It's easy for our brains to extrapolate based on limited information to produce that sort of an image which most likely has absolutely nothing to do with how an actual interstellar vehicle would be constructed. |
Of course in recent years the "typical saucer shaped ufo" is becoming less typical as other shaped phenomina are being reported, such as spheres and rounded-triangles. Again all these are based upon the same extrapolations of what we imagine them to be rather than what they may be. Astronomical mirages for example are optical distortions of spherical objects that could be misconstrued as a variety of different shapes from spheroid to ovoid and the classic cigar-shape.
Whatever shape an actual interstellar vehicle would be, I cannot see why streamlining would play a major part in the design.
Edited by Dean - May 02 2013 at 14:14
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The T
Special Collaborator
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Points: 17493
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Posted: May 02 2013 at 14:49 |
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I have seen bird-shaped UFOs.
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The Doctor
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Posted: May 02 2013 at 14:57 |
Errr, uh, hmmmmm...I think those would be birds. 
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
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Posted: May 02 2013 at 14:59 |
Dean wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
A case for deconstruction.... especially for the material reductionists.
I know the people involved and this was not a hoax, so what did they experience?
Three boys aged 11-12 were playing on a farm in the midwest late afternoon by the barns on the property when they heard their uncles' hunting dogs suddenly start barking (they were penned up). They went around the side of the barn to ck on the dogs and saw a large 'ufo' hovering above their uncles farm fields. They went inside and got the parents who then came out to look and all of them watched this object just hover over the field about 200 hundred feet up for about 2 or 3 minutes then it slowly moved off then left very fast and was gone very quickly. It was described as your typical saucer shaped ufo with both gold and silver metal colors and was as large as a small house.
On the news later that night was a report that people saw 'ufos' over the area that day.
So what did these people see ?
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There is insufficient information here to give any analysis to.
They saw a UFO. That is the simplest explanation because what they saw was Unidentified, it appeared to be Flying and it was apparently an Object - though neither of the last two points have been confirmed so to be more accurate what they saw just "Unidentified".
I could give a list of possible causes and explanations, all of which would be guesses based upon similar sightings and would all probably be incorrect because salient pieces of knowledge or observational data missing from your account could systematically eliminate them one by one while simultaneously adding to the pool of data that could indicate what it may have been.
Yesterday evening I saw an orange glow in the sky to the west, unless I give you more information you can only guess what I saw and what caused it. |
I hoped for more from you Dean......so why not name a few of the things that you think it could have been since you don't believe it was an alien spacecraft...?
I might be able to give you more 'salient' pieces of info about the event.
btw, I'm not trying to put you on the spot here but I would really like to hear your ideas about what they might have experienced if it was not a real aircraft.
Edited by dr wu23 - May 02 2013 at 15:05
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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The T
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Posted: May 02 2013 at 15:00 |
The Doctor wrote:
Errr, uh, hmmmmm...I think those would be birds. |
Ehem... Damn I never thought of that 
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dr wu23
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Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
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Posted: May 02 2013 at 15:07 |
Dean wrote:
Whatever shape an actual interstellar vehicle would be, I cannot see why streamlining would play a major part in the design. |
I feel the same way and have often asked those who support the ETH the same question.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Points: 37575
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Posted: May 02 2013 at 15:18 |
ETH? Nope, not recognising your TLA. 
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timothy leary
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Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
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Posted: May 02 2013 at 15:30 |
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Elvis is a watermelon.
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dr wu23
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Posted: May 02 2013 at 15:39 |
Dean wrote:
ETH? Nope, not recognising your TLA. |
ETH stands for extraterrestrial hypothesis.....sorry, I thought you knew that.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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dr wu23
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Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
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Posted: May 02 2013 at 15:40 |
timothy leary wrote:
Elvis is a watermelon. |
Very entertaining comment........you must be a real hoot at parties.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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Dean
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: May 02 2013 at 15:55 |
dr wu23 wrote:
Dean wrote:
ETH? Nope, not recognising your TLA. |
ETH stands for extraterrestrial hypothesis.....sorry, I thought you knew that. |
Assumptions are dangerous and often very wrong.
It is not a piece of information I needed to know therefore not something committed to memory. Whether "believers" in UFOs believe them to be of extraterrestrial origin or inter-dimensional origin (or whatever origin) is immaterial to me, you can argue among yourselves to your hearts content about where they could possibly maybe perhaps come from. That debate is like arguing whether Father Christmas comes from the North Pole or Lapland.
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timothy leary
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Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
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Posted: May 02 2013 at 15:57 |
dr wu23 wrote:
timothy leary wrote:
Elvis is a watermelon. |
Very entertaining comment........you must be a real hoot at parties.
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Did you take it personally, because I don't remember addressing you with my comment.
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The Doctor
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Joined: June 23 2005
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Posted: May 02 2013 at 16:17 |
Dean wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
Dean wrote:
ETH? Nope, not recognising your TLA. |
ETH stands for extraterrestrial hypothesis.....sorry, I thought you knew that. |
Assumptions are dangerous and often very wrong.
It is not a piece of information I needed to know therefore not something committed to memory. Whether "believers" in UFOs believe them to be of extraterrestrial origin or inter-dimensional origin (or whatever origin) is immaterial to me, you can argue among yourselves to your hearts content about where they could possibly maybe perhaps come from. That debate is like arguing whether Father Christmas comes from the North Pole or Lapland.
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When it is obviously self-evident that he's from Lapland. 
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: May 02 2013 at 16:24 |
The Doctor wrote:
Dean wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
Dean wrote:
ETH? Nope, not recognising your TLA. |
ETH stands for extraterrestrial hypothesis.....sorry, I thought you knew that. |
Assumptions are dangerous and often very wrong.
It is not a piece of information I needed to know therefore not something committed to memory. Whether "believers" in UFOs believe them to be of extraterrestrial origin or inter-dimensional origin (or whatever origin) is immaterial to me, you can argue among yourselves to your hearts content about where they could possibly maybe perhaps come from. That debate is like arguing whether Father Christmas comes from the North Pole or Lapland.
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When it is obviously self-evident that he's from Lapland. |
Look matey, just because no one can live at the North Pole it does not mean that no one does.
...oh wait, yes it does.
Oh bugger.
Edited by Dean - May 02 2013 at 17:45
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: May 03 2013 at 01:44 |
There you go, Douglas Adams was right - Aliens are tiny and their space craft are tiny. So tiny they can be disguised as birds.
Here is one in the process of "beaming" an abuductee aboard their craft to conduct annual probing experiments. You will observe how little the camo jacket provided as defence against such a cunning foe.
Edited by Dean - May 03 2013 at 01:47
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: May 03 2013 at 05:32 |
dr wu23 wrote:
I hoped for more from you Dean......so why not name a few of the things that you think it could have been since you don't believe it was an alien spacecraft...?
I might be able to give you more 'salient' pieces of info about the event.
btw, I'm not trying to put you on the spot here but I would really like to hear your ideas about what they might have experienced if it was not a real aircraft. |
Sorry to disappoint - shut me up twice and the possibility presenting you with a third opportunity becomes increasingly less likely.
If you have more evidence then provide it, if you haven't then don't.
The information provided does not give enough reference points to even make wild guesses. As I have said before, we are terrible at judging size, speed and (especially) distance - this can be demonstrated easily and explained using the mathematics of persective geometry - "a small house" 200 feet in the air looks the same as a 20-story building 2000 feet in the air that is ten times further away and will look the same as a dog-kennel 20 feet in the air at one tenth the distance. The problem there is the distance along the ground (ie depth) does not follow that simple relationship when projecting that 3D reality onto a 2D plane (ie how we see in perspective) - therefore we are rubbish at judging distances which puts a question mark over any size estimates made by eye-withnesses.
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Snow Dog
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Joined: March 23 2005
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Posted: May 03 2013 at 06:16 |
Dean wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
I hoped for more from you Dean......so why not name a few of the things that you think it could have been since you don't believe it was an alien spacecraft...?
I might be able to give you more 'salient' pieces of info about the event.
btw, I'm not trying to put you on the spot here but I would really like to hear your ideas about what they might have experienced if it was not a real aircraft. |
Sorry to disappoint - shut me up twice and the possibility presenting you with a third opportunity becomes increasingly less likely.
If you have more evidence then provide it, if you haven't then don't.
The information provided does not give enough reference points to even make wild guesses. As I have said before, we are terrible at judging size, speed and (especially) distance - this can be demonstrated easily and explained using the mathematics of persective geometry - "a small house" 200 feet in the air looks the same as a 20-story building 2000 feet in the air that is ten times further away and will look the same as a dog-kennel 20 feet in the air at one tenth the distance. The problem there is the distance along the ground (ie depth) does not follow that simple relationship when projecting that 3D reality onto a 2D plane (ie how we see in perspective) - therefore we are rubbish at judging distances which puts a question mark over any size estimates made by eye-withnesses. |
Correct. That's the trouble with these sightings. The brain fills in all the pre known details of what the eye doesn't see.
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
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Points: 20642
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Posted: May 04 2013 at 10:19 |
Dean wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
I hoped for more from you Dean......so why not name a few of the things that you think it could have been since you don't believe it was an alien spacecraft...?
I might be able to give you more 'salient' pieces of info about the event.
btw, I'm not trying to put you on the spot here but I would really like to hear your ideas about what they might have experienced if it was not a real aircraft. |
Sorry to disappoint - shut me up twice and the possibility presenting you with a third opportunity becomes increasingly less likely.
If you have more evidence then provide it, if you haven't then don't.
The information provided does not give enough reference points to even make wild guesses. As I have said before, we are terrible at judging size, speed and (especially) distance - this can be demonstrated easily and explained using the mathematics of persective geometry - "a small house" 200 feet in the air looks the same as a 20-story building 2000 feet in the air that is ten times further away and will look the same as a dog-kennel 20 feet in the air at one tenth the distance. The problem there is the distance along the ground (ie depth) does not follow that simple relationship when projecting that 3D reality onto a 2D plane (ie how we see in perspective) - therefore we are rubbish at judging distances which puts a question mark over any size estimates made by eye-withnesses. |
So then you have no idea what it could have been yet you dismiss the idea it could have been some type of aircraft, earth based or otherwise, ....that seems very prejudiced to me. It sounds like you are relcutant to even make a guess for personal reasons and your excuses seem simply weak to me. There are not that many things it could have been...period. Prove me wrong and tell me why you can't even make a wild guess.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: May 04 2013 at 19:13 |
dr wu23 wrote:
Dean wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
I hoped for more from you Dean......so why not name a few of the things that you think it could have been since you don't believe it was an alien spacecraft...?
I might be able to give you more 'salient' pieces of info about the event.
btw, I'm not trying to put you on the spot here but I would really like to hear your ideas about what they might have experienced if it was not a real aircraft. |
Sorry to disappoint - shut me up twice and the possibility presenting you with a third opportunity becomes increasingly less likely.
If you have more evidence then provide it, if you haven't then don't.
The information provided does not give enough reference points to even make wild guesses. As I have said before, we are terrible at judging size, speed and (especially) distance - this can be demonstrated easily and explained using the mathematics of persective geometry - "a small house" 200 feet in the air looks the same as a 20-story building 2000 feet in the air that is ten times further away and will look the same as a dog-kennel 20 feet in the air at one tenth the distance. The problem there is the distance along the ground (ie depth) does not follow that simple relationship when projecting that 3D reality onto a 2D plane (ie how we see in perspective) - therefore we are rubbish at judging distances which puts a question mark over any size estimates made by eye-withnesses. |
So then you have no idea what it could have been yet you dismiss the idea it could have been some type of aircraft, earth based or otherwise, ....that seems very prejudiced to me. |
I have never said it wasn't some type of aircraft, nor did I dismiss the posibility, I said: " They saw a UFO. That is the simplest explanation because what they saw was Unidentified."
Seriously: "typical saucer shaped with both gold and silver metal colors and was as large as a small house" and can "hover over the field... slowly moved off then left very fast and was gone very quickly" may be enough information for you to make all the wild guess you care to make but it's not enough information for me to make a considered one, and I don't do wild guesses unless I'm being obviously sarcastic, for example: "it's a giant electric banana" [I too am a hoot at parties].
dr wu23 wrote:
It sounds like you are relcutant to even make a guess for personal reasons and your excuses seem simply weak to me. |
The weakness of my excuse is immaterial. If I don't like the way you respond to my longer posts then my reluctance to be drawn into making guesses that I'm not interested in making is understandable. The blame does not lay with me for that.
dr wu23 wrote:
There are not that many things it could have been...period. |
Based upon the very limited information you have provided and taking into account the many possible errors in that information, there are many things that it could have been... random punctuation.
dr wu23 wrote:
Prove me wrong and tell me why you can't even make a wild guess. |
I don't have to prove you wrong when you haven't proved yourself right. The onus is on you to provide proof, which thus far you have failed to do.
If you think that there are not that many things that it could have been then why don't you tell the boys and girls reading this what those things are and explain why.
Edited by Dean - May 04 2013 at 19:15
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Atavachron
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Posted: May 04 2013 at 19:34 |
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With all the new drone technology being publicly utilized, and that was obviously available to those with access to it years ago, is it a surprise people are seeing all number of airborne constructions?
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The UFO Phenomenon
