What was the first Prog Album?

I dont care about "How many select wich album" and I think this can't be a good "Reason". aka talk about "Fact". I think "fact" different to "Reason". I cant judge "Music" with facts.I like to find "Reasons". Number of people with common opinion is a fact but why they thinking like this is Reason.

I agree. But for questions like "Who was the first human?" someone have an answer: ADAM!!!!! I know we dont have any proof but many people believe that.

I see. I never say I believe these kind of theological answers. In other religions they have another First Human!!!!!!! And all of them never have resonable causes. I never want to talk about religions because this is dengeruos to me in IRAN. I hope you undrestand me. Do you have another sample?!!!

earlyprog wrote: BaldJean wrote: fact is there is no such thing as "the first prog album". period. first of all it all depends on the definition of "prog", and no two people agree about that definition. second all these categories are afterthoughts; when prog developed no-one went about saying "I will create prog now". third it was a slow evolution. as already mentioned: "who was the first human?" makes as much sense as "what was the first prog album"   Before ItCotKC, East Of Eden or you pick a band, prog was only conceptualized on a song basis, it was not album oriented. These bands seemed to have a clear concept about playing prog rock (yet to be named at the time). This does not necessarily mean prog rock as a genre was realized. Bands like Yes, Genesis and ELP pushed prog from the conceptualization to the realization stage.   ItCotKC seems to have a well defined concept that no other (?) album had before it.

sorry, but I don't see any more concept in ITCOTCK than in previous albums. Sergeant Pepper's had a lot more concept than ITCOTCK

"Early Prog" thank you.  I don't understand why the general notion is met by some with such a visceral negative response.   Hey, if some of us want to muse over what might be the first Prog album, why almost attack us with such negativity?   More important, a couple people are not understanding that the tag/title line to this thread is not the actual question I’m really asking.   Let me break it down.

Yes, of course the point that there was not first Prog album is true in the general sense.   Absolutely.  I get the point that there is not first Prog Rock album.  Sheesh.  

And  as a genre,  we define Prog Rock as individuals differently.   But there is a generally accepted notion of what is Prog Rock.   Not proto-Prog or Psych but “Prog Rock”.   We all arrive at that understanding at various points.   For example, some bring up Sgt. Peppers as an example, but most others on this Board would say that it was part of the evolution, but as an album didn’t have enough of the elements of Prog to truly drop it into that category.   So at what point, would the majority (not all) members of this Board agree that there was an album (not just a song) that finally captures the majority opinion of what constitutes a fully realized Prog Rock album.  It may not be your or my opinion, but there is in fact a collective/statistical opinion.  And that opinion seems to be ITCOTKC.  

So what is the criteria folks are using to pick ITCOTKC?  A certain virtuosity that you don’t find a Sgt. Peppers or Moody Blues.   A new approach to Rock playing and songwriting infused with highly technical playing ability, and atypical song structures that are still more composed than a psych jam.  

So if the album that commonly gets the most votes is ITCOTKC, people are in fact putting a criteria on that.   All I wanted to do was try to use that criteria to then go backwards and see if there were earlier albums that fit the bill?   And for me, I found a few.   The strongest example is East of Eden.  So this has all been well worth it for me.

 

 

 

 

 

earlyprog wrote: BaldJean wrote: sorry, but I don't see any more concept in ITCOTCK than in previous albums. Sergeant Pepper's had a lot more concept than ITCOTCK   No offense intended but I think your understanding of what a concept is, is too narrowminded.

no offense intended, but I think your understanding of what a concept is is too broad-minded

I'd go with the works of Richard Wagner or even the Medieval madrigals, but it seems that when bands took the fashonable psychellica (excuse the spelling) element out of their music and concentrated on the music, prog was born

Possibly ITCOTCK was the most focussed album in a genre that had yet and still is and probably never will be properly defined. Nice to hear about this East of Eden album in such glowing terms. I've a track on a compilation CD (I used to love it as a kid and didn't know who it was until decades later!) Pleasant surprise.

Are prog albums defined by conceptual themes? I can see one in the KC debut. The Sgt Pepper album has a link between the title track (and the reprsie) and the cover but I think that's about it.

Now Zappa on the other hand was defining avant progressive music with his great Mothers. I think he might have been the first to have had a prog rock solo album, Lumpy Gravy....

The groundswell of bands from 67 to 69 ... there is that idea. After all being the first is going to be hard to pin down anyway as this may be governed by a record company's release date. Really most of these writers and musicians were developing all simultaneously rather than standing in line.

[/QUOTE]
sorry, but I don't see any more concept in ITCOTCK than in previous albums. Sergeant Pepper's had a lot more concept than ITCOTCK
[/QUOTE]

Days Of Future Passed (67) has a clearly defined theme. It is also symphonic.

The theme of ITCOTCK is a kind of difference between The Schizoid Man and The King. It's not clearly defined one has to use a bit of imagination.

So what is the criteria? prog album that is
a) symphonic or at least incorporating artistic (non rock) elements e.g. Nice, Procol
b) themed - Moodies (Shame PF's Man / Journey wasn't fully envisioned on Ummagumma buth there we go...
c) quality musician ship. Everyone but especially KC and especially Fripp (who got even better.)

I think ITCOTCK is probably the most defined of the lot. The past was prologue - collective opinion recommends this as the best of the first.

(thinks) Still think Days was first...

Saying Sgt Peppers is the first prog album makes no sense at all.  Piper at the Gates of Dawn was recorded at the exact same time and even though it's more of a psychedelic rock album than a prog rock album, it's more progressive and innovational than Sgt Peppers without a doubt.  Sgt Pepper's is a good album, but mostly full of pop material, just with a very high budget.  Piper at the Gates of Dawn is an acid trip in an album (Interstellar Overdrive......) and is way more progressive than the Beatles.  

Edited by himtroy - August 07 2010 at 01:01