The Stranglers???

now that I'm home the team is giving them a rigorous eval.  Following this thread...  would like to see some thoughtful comments on the music... not endless debates about tags and labels... this a f**king music site... we evaluate music....

and this is not the place to piss on Steely Dan.   Two teams of experts saw the logic in it ...they were discussed to death in multiple threads here....  we were only years behind other sites in finally getting them added here.  And the most important point... they have nothing to do with Stranglers....  SD came from J-R not punk or new wave or whatever tag people want to throw at them.  The Stranglers will be evaluated.. as every group is....on their musical merits alone.

I would have to see which other bands those arguments would be applied to. I am generally pretty open though. hey, this is the PROGRESSIVE rock site; new developments should be welcome, or shouldn't  they?

It's funny until some point see the people talking about how bad tagging is, but at the same time they work in a team tagging bands all days.

and just thinking outloud here....  see this site is sort of in the ether a bit.... stuck between prog and progressive. 


there are those who think this site should be prog only.... but forget two things...  prog started by progressing rock music by taking all kinds of influences and creating something new. 

we have those who did that in the 70's... and those that rip-off those sounds and influences still today. To some that is prog.... and anything outside of that simply is not.  That IS a valid way of thinking.... however the problem is.... the site has gone far past that.... and you simply can not go back to where that point is...  so you have two choices... clip off new additions and just leave those groups hanging that are already here or we follow the logical course this site has took... and remember the true meaning of prog... it inself is not a genre.. or a sound....but a movement to progress music...  that take influences... in like in this case... new influences.. .or like The Mars Volta  punk and new wave... and make their OWN version of prog.   That has been the problem here in it's own little way....  too many different notions of the way the site SHOULD be... but not enough seeing how the site IS ALREADY and that there really is no turning back..  We are here to celebrate prog ... progressive rock.  My two cents.. and tossing that out if anyone wants to run with that.

How many controversial additions until we break the camel's back, so to speak? I don't know if enraging the general public on a semi-regular basis is a good idea and after a while, credibility begins to drop...

But then again, I'm a curmudgeon when it comes to prog. I support a safer, more deliberate approach rather than scrambling to find prog elements in every single band I can think of...

Personally speaking, I think the site should consider a name change. Too much of the music that is now included doesn't fit the historical definition of 'prog' - if we wanted to be consistent with that definition, half of the bands or artists currently listed on the site should be scrapped for good - and I'm not just talking about the much-reviled ProgMetal subgenres.

Furthermore, very few, if any, of the other prog sites that some are ready to mention when decrying the direction PA is taking are even more inclusive than we are, and I am more than ready to show proof of that. This is because music, like all art, is not a hard science, and boundaries are next to impossible to set. Everyone will have their own notion of what 'prog' (or anything else for that matter) should or shouldn't be, and those notions - as we see every day on these forums - can vary dramatically.

As things stand now, PA runs the risk of becoming neither fish nor fowl - not a strict 'prog' site any longer, but not yet a 'progressive' music resource, as many people would like to see. My personal opinion is that we should have the courage to take the plunge, and accept a variety of artists that have helped popular (as in not classical or jazz) music to progress... Yes, this will alienate some of the more 'purist' members (and I am not using the term with any derogatory connotation... just stating a fact), but I think there is no turning back now. After all, as the saying goes, fortune favours the brave... And, while we can always ignore a band or artist whose presence here we disagree with, being too exclusive would prevent people from discussing and reviewing those acts we keep out.

Of course, this doesn't mean I am in favour of PA turning into a clone of AllMusic.com.... No band or artist that is not genuinely progressive in some way or another should be inducted, as instead has happened in the past (Triumph, anyone?). As regards the matter at hand, i.e. The Stranglers, I would endorse their addition, though I am aware of the can of worms it would open, especially as regards their association with punk. However, At the Drive-In were a hardcore band, and this hasn't stopped The Mars Volta from being hailed amongst the standard-bearers of modern prog.

Has anyone heard "Duchess" from the "Raven" album, sounds a lot like Genesis was listening to this album and was neavily inflenced by it for their "Duke" album. The titles are so similar as are the keyboards!

If "Raven" and "Meninblack" are given a proper listen the prog elements are undeniable. "Feline" is close to acoustic prog.

Hell some albums and tracks are more proggy than others. The argument isn't whether the band is full fledged prog because they aren't.

I would classify them as having Punk/Prog/New Wave elements between the years 77-84. Does this not qualify them for Prog-Related, similare Bowie or Split Enz on here..?

Ghost Rider wrote: Personally speaking, I think the site should consider a name change. Too much of the music that is now included doesn't fit the historical definition of 'prog' - if we wanted to be consistent with that definition, half of the bands or artists currently listed on the site should be scrapped for good - and I'm not just talking about the much-reviled ProgMetal subgenres.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 16 2008 at 14:56

Avantgardehead wrote: micky wrote: and in all seriousness... not ONE band that you think is prog has been removed here has it? what is to say that bands that others think ARE prog.. that don't fit your prog view have no place here? I don't think bands are removed period, right? And I'm safe because all the prog bands I like are big or relatively big names so if they were removed, I'd probably pack-up and leave the country because the world's about to end!! True, my spartan view doesn't overshadow anyone else's view, but that's where the problem begins. Leaving something like this up to the general population is very dangerous because some people have very unusual views about music. People can come up with all kinds of crazy crap and it's even more dangerous when they're smart enough to rationalize it through 5-paragraph essays and the like... this site is not some exclusive club... but a place where people who love progressive rock can come... we serve all... not just the curmudgeons Very true, but seeing as this is about a particular side of the musical spectrum, there should be some exclusivity at least. Unless we're made up of universalists who can link every single band in the world together.

of course bands are never removed hahahah.. a joke of sorts...  and we do have exclusivity..as Raff said... we have teams here which screen every band suggested.. and those that a team feels are not prog... are not added.   So much for becoming allmusic.com huh

I used the archives' own checklist for my argument; an artist that fits most of the criteria should definitely be given close consideration at least. there are MANY bands in here that match with fewer criteria than the Stranglers, and no-one would even dream of arguing them. some people said we would lose credibility as a prog site if we included the Stranglers. it is, however, just the other way round: we lose credibility if we don't follow our own criteria.
and, as I have already said before: most of the uproar against the Stranglers is NOT due to their music but due to the tag the music industry gave them. I find it a bit sad that people go by tags instead of using their ears and truly listening to the music without prejudice; they would quickly find the enormous complexities in the music of the Stranglers and would at least grow some doubts about the categorization of their music