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Topic ClosedProgressive Metal Pioneers?
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Points: 16449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2008 at 18:21
^They need to do it just for the wow factor of Micky paying to hear DTShocked! 
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2008 at 18:25
hahhaha.. amen cuz!!!  Oh I've paid to hear DT.  This time it would be for pleasure, not PA's obligations hahah....I .would love to hear what they did with it. Would at least provide fodder for another year of anti-DT posts.  I've gone soft I'm afraid .. I actually sort of liked their last album. Embarrassed
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Points: 10665 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2008 at 20:52
LOL I realise I've missed you the last couple of days Micky....
Blargh
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Points: 65616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2008 at 21:00
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

and later Metal Church inspired an entire scene and genre in SF.
 


yes, initially Anvil Chorus-The Church of Metal, concieved as the 'ultimate metal band' by Vanderhoof and Aaron Zimple..  Zimple and Bill Skinner then formed Vienna and later simply Anvil Chorus, a variation of the original Metal Church concept, with the double guitars of Thaen Rasmussen (of local band Vyking) and Doug Piercy (from Cobra)..  this was the premier progressive metal act in the Bay Area at a time when the genre was barely walking upright









Edited by Atavachron - April 11 2008 at 21:02
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Points: 56 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2008 at 20:44
i would see savatage as the prog-metal pioneers. but who knows. spinal tap maybe? ;-)
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Points: 8138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2008 at 10:30
Uriah Heep ?
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2008 at 10:44
^ I've always thought so...  
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Points: 4079 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2008 at 10:57
Nah, they were stealing when they should have been buying.  LOL
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Points: 174 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2008 at 18:10
Rush all the way dude. They were the first heavy prog band, and basically every progressive metal band site them as main influence, specially DT.
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Points: 25210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2008 at 22:10
Originally posted by Real Paradox Real Paradox wrote:

Rush all the way dude. They were the first heavy prog band, and basically every progressive metal band site them as main influence, specially DT.
 
Go back and read the rest of the topic first. We have been round and round on whether Rush is a prog metal pioneer many times, and I imagine some of the people that have been posting in this topic for a few pages now are getting sick of Rush coming up.
An influence is not the same thing as a pioneer, a point we already established many pages back.
 


Edited by HughesJB4 - April 13 2008 at 22:15
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Points: 65616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2008 at 22:13
 ^ amen, thanks Hughes
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Points: 65616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2008 at 22:25
oh, I've got the first Angel Witch record on and I don't care what anyone says, it's a cooker of a record, Kevin Heybourne was extremely underrated guitarist/composer and Dave Hogg was a fine drummer..  we know their 1980 album influenced Metallica and many other metal bands, both in the SF scene and elsewhere, the dark riffing of Sabbath with a Rush harmonic guitar sense and many prog touches  ..the 25th anniversary remaster came out in 2005, or the other reissues since 1998

  
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2008 at 03:05
Totally Agree - Angel Witch's debut is fantastic. I'd put it on a par with the criminally underrated "Narita" by Riot.
 
 I was listening to "Tyrrany and Mutation" (Blue Oyster Cult - 1974) last night, and, despite its obvious Rock and Roll roots, there's a lot there to support BOC as a potential contender for Prog Metal pioneers, including a kind of "...higher ambition, musical competency and musicological/historical understanding in rock and roll.". Metallica also covered "Astronomy" from the "Secret Treaties" album (Garage Inc.)...
 
We have to be careful with "influences", as Metallica also covered bands like The Misfits, The Anti-Nowhere League, Nick Cave, Holocaust and Killing Joke - proving that influences don't necessarily come from Prog sources.
 
My other PM-related weekend listening included "Nantucket Sleighride" by Mountain. What a *fantastic* album.
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Points: 25210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2008 at 03:59
Never heard of Angel Witch. I might check them out.
As for non prog influences, you're absolutely right, many of the early thrash metal bands were very much influenced by punk as well as metal. Although the more complex bands, like Testament etc, were clearly less punk influenced.
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Points: 65616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2008 at 04:03
Raven had a punk thing going on, I'd say almost proto-thrash at times, Rock Until You Drop and Wiped Out were great rough-edged NWOBHM
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Points: 4079 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2008 at 08:11
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

..... 
 I was listening to "Tyrrany and Mutation" (Blue Oyster Cult - 1974) last night, and, despite its obvious Rock and Roll roots, there's a lot there to support BOC as a potential contender for Prog Metal pioneers, including a kind of "...higher ambition, musical competency and musicological/historical understanding in rock and roll.". .....
 
I can totally see BOC being a pioneer, but have any true Prog Metal bands cited them as an influence? I really hope so. They played aggressively and had Prog elements. not to mention, they brought in a dark atmosphere, like Black Sabbath.
 
 
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Points: 66588 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2008 at 08:54
I know that Iced Earth has cited BOC as an influence, although I think Iron Maiden is their major influence.  As with most power metal bands, however, they have prog elements, but are not necessarily a prog metal band, although I think a couple of their albums might qualify.
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2008 at 02:37
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Raven had a punk thing going on, I'd say almost proto-thrash at times, Rock Until You Drop and Wiped Out were great rough-edged NWOBHM

 
There's a substantial punk element in Maiden's Di'Anno albums - not to mention Angel Witch. I listened to that album for nostalgia's sake last night, and it was even better than I remembered.
 
5 influences really stood out (despite, or possibly because of the fact that AW have a unique sound of their own);
 
1. Diamond Head - variants of the chugging riff of "Am I Evil" is present in many tracks, some of the structures are suprisingly complex for the genre, and there are some really tasty slow prog/bluesy moments.
 
2. Iron Maiden - structuring, drum and guitar rhythms.
 
3. Uriah Heep/Queen - vocal harmonies and effects.
 
4. Motorhead - the drumming often uses rhythms typical of Philthy Animal Taylor.
 
5. Schenker - many of the licks used in the solos are reminiscent of Schenker's work, and the attempt at precision is notable. One big difference is the usage of modal scales rather than "standard" pentanic/diatonic/major/minor.
 
 
Raven were one of my favourite NWoBHM bands, and must have influenced the Bay area somewhat - didn't they support Metallica - or was it the other way around?
 
Their technical prowess shines through the utter mayhem of the music on the first two albums - like Judas Priest on speed ("Wiped Out" sounds like it's loosely based on "Exciter") in places - incidentally, it's notable that there are two Sweet covers on "Rock Until You Drop" ("Action" and "Hellraiser"). I think The Sweet were a major influence on heavy metal in general - especially on the New Wave bands.
 
I'm also very keen on about 50% of Raven's 3rd album "All For One" - I Mentioned "Run Silent, Run Deep" above - it's a stunning track. MUCH better than the Iron Maiden song of the same name... Pity the rest of the album is filler.
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Points: 65616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2008 at 02:50
oh yeah, you can hear the punk clearly in early Maiden

..I've been reading the notes in the AW reissue (1998), hadn't realized Heybourne ended up using Doug Piercy for his 3rd version of Angel Witch while in California..   just ordered the 2005 remaster with all the extras
http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/angel_witch/angel_witch__25th_anniversary_expanded_edition_/

Heybourne's material was extremely heavy for its time, and the amp sound he got on the debut is great despite the bassy mix..  some of the those single cuts were good too, 'Baphomet' is excellent

on Raven; I had no idea 'Action' and 'Hellraiser' were covers (I had the British vinyl with the signatures on the back), love that band..  the Gallaghers!





.


Edited by Atavachron - April 15 2008 at 02:52
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2008 at 07:59
YouTube Fest #2 (quality is, naturally, *very* dodgy on some of these);
 
 
Raven Overdose Big%20smile
 
 
 
 
AngelWitch;
 
 
Blitzkrieg, who liked "Hocus Pocus" so much, they wrote an entire album based on it's main riff;
 
Triarchy - a relative unknown, but fairly proggy tendencies;
 
...and a nice bit of Riot to round things off;
 
 
Note: YouTube seems a bit slow today - I'll dig out some Sweet when it wakes up a bit.
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