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David_D View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2024 at 05:19

^^ One of the PA members has this interpretation of Niemen's "Four Walls of the World": "the Wall represents unmoveable government oppression and different folks' responses to a Wall of Pain." 
I find this interpretation to be rather good, but I think that instead of government, it's better to say that the wall represents the Party (PZPR), or maybe even the political or the whole system. But I can also be in doubt about whether Czeslaw Niemen, the greatest Polish Rock star at that time, would be stating such heavy criticism, even in a symbolic way.
Edit:
As far as I understand it, it's also okay to tell that it's Cindy's interpretation.


Edited by David_D - July 28 2024 at 08:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2024 at 10:09
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Rush
mostly considered a bit right wing back in the seventies a song like Trees might actually be the best song ever written about socialism, albeit from a capitalist perspective!

According to Scott Bullock, Neil Peart considers himself to be a "left-wing libertarian", and that's probably not only a bit right-wing.

(So tells Durrell Bowman in "Let Them All Make Their Own Music". in Progressive Rock Reconsidered, 2002, p. 193)


Edited by David_D - July 29 2024 at 11:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2024 at 04:15
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

^^ One of the PA members has this interpretation of Niemen's "Four Walls of the World": "the Wall represents unmoveable government oppression and different folks' responses to a Wall of Pain." 
I find this interpretation to be rather good, but I think that instead of government, it's better to say that the wall represents the Party (PZPR), or maybe even the political or the whole system. But I can also be in doubt about whether Czeslaw Niemen, the greatest Polish Rock star at that time, would be stating such heavy criticism, even in a symbolic way.

The original Polish title of "Four Walls of the World" is "Cztery Sciany Swiata", and it may be easily associated with "cztery strony swiata" which is the Polish expression for the four directions of the world: East, West, North and South. Having this as a starting point for the interpretation of the song, it may be more obvious with another one than the quoted.
I may be even more in doubt with a political interpretation of Niemen's "Strange Is This World", even I don't really think that song is about human nature. 
I don't know that much about Czeslaw Niemen, but I think of him as more concerned with human beings in general, or the mankind, than with politics.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2024 at 04:45
 
^ If the title "Four Walls of the World" is also meant to be associated with the four directions of the world, the afore-mentioned interpretation could be defended if changed to concerning the whole world-widespread marxism/communism/socialism the way it had been practiced by regimes. Such an interpretation can also be supported by the red, or even blood-red, wall on the coverart and not least in the eyes of the depicted face. However, stating such heavy criticism is even harder to me to believe, even there was a quite strong oppositional movement emerging in Poland in the mid-'70s, which was mostly leftist though.

                                   


Edited by David_D - August 02 2024 at 07:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2024 at 07:22

It may be a good idea to post here those lyrics again:

Niemen Aerolit - "Four Walls of the World"

In front of the wall of sound stand the deaf ones
They pray to the music
When you don't desire, when you have to
Better be nobody

In front of the wailing wall stand the clowns
They laugh at their own shadows' twitches
And their laughter is empty, their laughter is terrible
Better be nobody

In front of the wall of light stand the blind ones
And they look without blinking 
About what shines, they know better 
Than an ordinary man
 
A hero stands in front of the wall of execution 
Looks the executioners in the eyes 
Smokes his last cigarette 
On the edge of the night 

There is a world made of walls growing upwards 
In it the word loses its value 
I stand in front of an ordinary wall 
And I bang my head against it
And I bang my head against it

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2024 at 12:18
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

mostly considered a bit right wing back in the seventies
WHAT? Wow. By whom? Haha! Subdivisions ("Conform or be cast oot!") is an almost verbatim critique of right wing politics. xD

LIBERALISM
a political or social philosophy advocating the freedom of the individual

source

Edited by Hrychu - August 02 2024 at 12:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2024 at 10:48
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

LIBERALISM
a political or social philosophy advocating the freedom of the individual

source

I'm rather sure that someone like Ian Anderson would say, at least in the '70s, that in relation to capitalism, it's just some (bad) theory.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2024 at 12:52
Hi,

Screw politics!

I stand to the right of Aphrodite and to the left of Chuck Amuck! Clown
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2024 at 13:24

As said so many times before, easy to stay away. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2024 at 04:07

Here's the original version of Niemen's "Dziwny Jest Ten Swiat" translated to English by Google Translate and slightly corrected by me, 
as I think it's better than the English version quoted in this thread before:

Czeslaw Niemen - "Strange Is This World"

Strange is this world

where still
so much evil resides.
And strange is that
for so many years,
Man has despised Man.

Strange is this world,
the world of human affairs,
sometimes it is embarrassing to admit it.
And yet it is often the case
that someone
kills with an evil word as if with a knife.

But there are most people of the good will
and I strongly believe that
this world
will never perish thanks to them.
No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No!
The time has come, it is high time
to destroy hatred in yourself.

(from the album Strange Is This World (1967))

Not Prog but it's a great song and to me, it's first and foremost about the belief that despite all the evil, the "people of the good will" 
will ensure the further existence of the human world.
Edit:
Or it's maybe more an appeal to conflicting parts to overcome hatred, compromise and solve the conflicts - a kind of flower power message.


Edited by David_D - August 04 2024 at 05:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2024 at 07:35
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


As said so many times before, easy to stay away. 

Hi,

That's OK ... you can play the ostrich in my book ... without even knowing/understanding each situation.

I have posted my details and stories in a couple of places, but some folks like you are not specially attuned to reading for the important details. I'm not some kind of lunatic wanting bullets flying over my head day and night ... literal or figuratively ... as Sam Kenniston said about the poor blacks in Africa ... get them a suitcase! ... 

I imagine that for you "political prog" is just another comic book idea with pictures for you to enjoy! It makes better sense on your comments!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2024 at 05:56
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Not Prog but it's a great song and to me, it's first and foremost about the belief that despite all the evil, the "people of the good will" 
will ensure the further existence of the human world.
Edit:
Or it's maybe more an appeal to conflicting parts to overcome hatred, compromise and solve the conflicts - a kind of flower power message.
I'd say, "Strange Is This World" is a political song, broadly defined, in the matter of its concern, and also because ideologically speaking, it expresses liberalistic stressing of the power of people's will.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2024 at 09:37

Alphataurus - s/t (1973), I don't know what the lyrics are about on this album, but the artwork definitely tells that it's at least partly anti-war
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2024 at 13:47

Aphrodite's Child - 666 (1972)

As I see it, there's some stuff in this double, concept album made in the time of military junta in Greece (1967-74), which can be 
interpreted and considered as political.





Edited by David_D - August 12 2024 at 14:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2024 at 14:55

Jethro Tull - "Wind-Up", critical in relation to organized religion in UK, Aqualung (1971)

Yes - "The Gates of Delirium", this side-long epic is about absurdity of the Vietnam war, Relayer (1974)






Edited by David_D - August 14 2024 at 16:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2024 at 15:31

Genesis - "Harold the Barrel", including some criticism of media, Nursery Cryme (1971)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2024 at 06:58
More

Genesis - "Supper's Ready" (part iii and iv), including a very strong anti-war statement, Foxtrot (1972)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2024 at 16:37
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Antoni Antoni wrote:

At the time when Wigwam released their brief song "Proleterian," Finland was experiencing changes; it was transitioning from a predominantly agrarian society to an industrialized one, and that period saw a lot of debates about workers' rights. Therefore, the lyrics of "Proletarian" reflect social inequality and class struggle.

Yes, the whole album Being (1974), or at least the most of it, is very political, even it's not easy for me to quite understand the lyrics - so very nice with some interpretation here, and we've got Finland to join the party as well. Tongue

A Finnish Prog site has a very fine review of Being, and a part of it says:

"Being is a theme album, but it represents the section of concept albums where the actual theme is very difficult to sum up in a few words. It is a kind of study of the clashes between different social classes and ideologies. With a strong sarcastic and black humour touch. Some of the lyrics, which mocked communism, were rejected by the Love Records label, which had a very strong left-wing slant.

...................

The lyrics on the resulting album are very cynical and dark. Mankind, destroying itself and its environment in its stupid greed, is given little mercy in Gustavson’s lyrics. Pembroke’s ’Petty-Bourgeois’, ’Maestro Mercy’ and ’Marvelry Skimmer’ at least lighten the atmosphere a little.

The darkest track on the album is Pohjola’s ”Pride of the Biosphere” where Gustavson’s lyrics have a military chaplain telling stories in a squeaky voice about how officers used to rape the waitresses in a military canteen and then shoot them. In the background, the devout organ theme of the Pohjola plays in sarcastic contrast.

 ( https://pienemmatpurot.com/2024/02/03/review-wigwam-being-1974/ )


Edited by David_D - August 30 2024 at 17:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2024 at 03:59

^ Actually, I think it's most fair to post this review here in its entirety:

                                                           Review: Wigwam – Being (1974)

Being is the fourth studio album by Wigwam, founded in Finland in 1968.

Wigwam’s first three albums contain many great moments, but each of them is rather uneven as a whole.

Being transforms all of this into a full set of one exquisite composition after another, forming a very coherent whole. Being is a theme album, but it represents the section of concept albums where the actual theme is very difficult to sum up in a few words. It is a kind of study of the clashes between different social classes and ideologies. With a strong sarcastic and black humour touch. Some of the lyrics, which mocked communism, were rejected by the Love Records label, which had a very strong left-wing slant.

The mastermind behind the whole concept of Being was keyboardist/vocalist Jukka Gustavson, but he did not write and compose all the songs on the album alone, but shared the workload with bassist Pekka Pohjola and keyboardist/vocalist Jim Pembroke, who wrote the songs according to Gustavson’s loose instructions. Some of the compositions had been written before the concept of Being was conceived, but Gustavson then modified them as best he could to make them fit better into the whole.

The lyrics on the resulting album are very cynical and dark. Mankind, destroying itself and its environment in its stupid greed, is given little mercy in Gustavson’s lyrics. Pembroke’s ’Petty-Bourgeois’, ’Maestro Mercy’ and ’Marvelry Skimmer’ at least lighten the atmosphere a little.

The darkest track on the album is Pohjola’s ”Pride of the Biosphere” where Gustavson’s lyrics have a military chaplain telling stories in a squeaky voice about how officers used to rape the waitresses in a military canteen and then shoot them. In the background, the devout organ theme of the Pohjola plays in sarcastic contrast. Pohjola later recycled the same melody in a less haunting mood on his own album Keesojen lehto (1977).

Being was a major project for Wigwam, carefully built over the course of a year. Although the actual studio time was only about a month. Which was a lot for a Finnish rock band at that time. Usually, Finnish rock albums were recorded in a week or even less.

Wigwam had already taken clear steps towards more progressive music with their previous album Fairyport (1971) and this trend is only confirmed with Being. The songs are more complex and the instrumental performances more virtuosic.

However, like many other progressive bands, Wigwam didn’t set out to build songs of colossal length, but Being consists mostly of short 2-4 minute songs. The only exceptions are the 9 minute ”Pedagogue” and the 6 minute ”Prophet”. On the other hand, some of the songs form suites of their own, i.e. some of the songs are tied together by seamlessly stitching them together.

Being’s compositions are so dense and full of musical information and ideas that many a mediocre prog band would have built a 20 minute epic out of them. Indeed, Being’s short but extremely complex pieces are more akin to the music of Gentle Giant and especially Henry Cow than to the more leisurely symphonic arcs of, say, Yes or Genesis.

Jukka Gustavson’s beloved soul influences add their own piquant flavour not often heard in prog. Being sounds a bit like what Henry Cow might sound like if Stevie Wonder had been a member of the band. The respected British music critic Ian Mcdonald went further than me in his comparison and wrote in praise of the album, describing the music as sounding like the aforementioned Stevie Wonder meets Frank Zappa’s Mother Of Invention and Robert Wyatt, all directed by composer Arnold Schoenberg. Yes, I could subscribe to that too.

The more complex compositions by Gustavson and Pohjola alternate in a balanced way with Pembroke’s slightly lighter pieces (which are not simple tunes either). It’s a really effective solution and the whole thing even feels surprisingly coherent. Although the original composition of the songs can be clearly traced back to one man, all the songs, after going through the arrangement/recording grinder, have become specifically Wigwam music.

The most challenging aspect of Being is represented by Gustavson’s compositions, especially ”Pedagogue” and ”Prophet”, which are not only rhythmically complex, but also constantly evolving and deftly evading the normal pop formula of musical repetition.

”Pedagogue” has its roots in the three-minute single ”Pedagogi”, released a couple of years earlier, but on Being Gustavson modified and expanded the composition significantly and the link to the original version is barely recognisable. The beautifully sounding ”Pedagogue”, which is full of changes in tempo, features brass arrangements by Pekka Pohjola that are a treat to listen to and bring to mind not only Pohjola’s idol Frank Zappa, but also Pohjola’s own first solo albums. In the context of Being, the arrangements could have worked a bit more sharply, though. Gustavson’s effervescent and nimble-fingered soloing on a Fender electric piano is also particularly stunning in ’Pedagogue’. The song also features a soprano saxophone solo from 

Pekka Pöyry.

( https://pienemmatpurot.com/2024/02/03/review-wigwam-being-1974/ )



Edited by David_D - August 31 2024 at 06:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2024 at 16:40

^ It's a very fine review, but it finds that "The lyrics on the resulting album are very cynical and dark. Mankind, destroying itself and its environment in its stupid greed, is given little mercy in Gustavson’s lyrics.", and I can't see in which way the lyrics are cynical. 







Edited by David_D - September 01 2024 at 05:07
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