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Joined: April 02 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 202
Posted: May 02 2012 at 17:26
dtguitarfan wrote:
If you didn't make it through the entire album, then you might not have heard the best songs. Did you hear Learning to Live? I think it is one of the most fantastic Progressive compositions ever - the keyboardist starts out playing this pattern: 3 3 4 5. When the other band members come in, they are all playing different metres. I can't figure out what the bassist or drummer are doing exactly, though I have tried. However, I can tell you that the guitarist plays a straight 2/4 beat, which makes a pretty funky pattern on top of the keyboardist's 15/8 pattern.
So I went back to listen to this and I think, fundamentally, perhaps we look for different things in music. Your description above is a clue to this. I have no technical knowledge about music so I couldn't tell you anything about the time signatures being used etc. I know from experience however that I tend to enjoy music that has some element of relative complexity but it has to feel like it is there naturally and be integrated with the rest of what is going on. In the case of this song, I can hear that the band can play and that technical things are going on but they feel like they are bolted on to something which is not substantial enough to take the weight. As I say, I can't back this up with any sort of technical analysis. At the end of the day it comes down to gut feeling and individual taste I guess.
If you didn't make it through the entire album, then you might not have heard the best songs. Did you hear Learning to Live? I think it is one of the most fantastic Progressive compositions ever - the keyboardist starts out playing this pattern: 3 3 4 5. When the other band members come in, they are all playing different metres. I can't figure out what the bassist or drummer are doing exactly, though I have tried. However, I can tell you that the guitarist plays a straight 2/4 beat, which makes a pretty funky pattern on top of the keyboardist's 15/8 pattern.
So I went back to listen to this and I think, fundamentally, perhaps we look for different things in music. Your description above is a clue to this. I have no technical knowledge about music so I couldn't tell you anything about the time signatures being used etc. I know from experience however that I tend to enjoy music that has some element of relative complexity but it has to feel like it is there naturally and be integrated with the rest of what is going on. In the case of this song, I can hear that the band can play and that technical things are going on but they feel like they are bolted on to something which is not substantial enough to take the weight. As I say, I can't back this up with any sort of technical analysis. At the end of the day it comes down to gut feeling and individual taste I guess.
Well, hey man, I think it's awesome that you went back and listened for what I talked about. I mean, it makes me mad when I know I've found something interesting, unique, and special and someone comes along, and without even trying to understand it they just say "I hate it, it sucks." You know? But just the fact that you came back and said you can see why I like it even though you don't is really cool of you.
Joined: April 01 2009
Location: Atlanta
Status: Offline
Points: 26138
Posted: May 03 2012 at 06:30
I broke my Dream Theater-less streak (not that I was trying to set a record or anything) this past week and finally picked up an album (Scenes from a Memory) and it's a good album. Meaning, it flowed well, had some good musical themes, some good dramatic sections of technical wow-ery (though not so many as to seem like showing off), and I even liked the singer, who seems to get a lot of flak even from fans. Didn't make me a fan overnight, but a good album is a good album.
Edited by HolyMoly - May 03 2012 at 06:31
My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
I broke my Dream Theater-less streak (not that I was trying to set a record or anything) this past week and finally picked up an album (Scenes from a Memory) and it's a good album. Meaning, it flowed well, had some good musical themes, good dramatic sections of technical wow-ery (though not so many as to seem like showing off), and I even liked the singer, who seems to get a lot of flak even from fans. Didn't make me a fan overnight, but a good album is a good album.
Ah, that's where it starts...you say "well, I'm not in love with them, but it's a good album." Then, at some point you're listening again, and notice one part sounds really funky. You start to try to figure it out, and make a couple connections and then you realize just how hard it is to do what they do. I love trying to figure out complex metres. This will show you what a crazy fan I am: I found out there was a book of Dream Theater scores, so I bought it to help me figure some of them out. The song "Dance of Eternity" is so complex that even with the book in front of me, I can't count with it. I just have to respect it, haha!
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
Posted: May 05 2012 at 12:02
colorofmoney91 wrote:
I've never heard anything by Atomic Rooster.
Ditto.
In other news: Museo Rosenbach, Ayreon, Atheist, I don't believe I mentioned PT (heard only one song by them), heard an excerpt of a Tool song, then Devin Townsend, heard a few tracks by Kayo Dot, Arrakis by Dun, then Khan, Bubu, haven't heard a lot of stuff by Santana except the hit singles, haven't heard anything by Caravan except for "In the Land of Grey and Pink", heard only a few songs by Marillion, ... stay tuned .
Joined: January 30 2012
Location: UT, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 374
Posted: May 19 2012 at 03:58
I haven't listened to any entire prog metal or rio/avant prog album, though I've listened to a stray Dream Theater or Henry Cow track now and then. Besides Marillion I've hardly listened to any Neo-Prog. I haven't listened to any Mike Oldield or Supertramp. I also haven't listend to any RPI outside of PFM. I haven't heard Camel's debut yet either.
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
Posted: May 19 2012 at 05:22
dtguitarfan wrote:
I love trying to figure out complex metres. This will show you what a crazy fan I am: I found out there was a book of Dream Theater scores, so I bought it to help me figure some of them out. The song "Dance of Eternity" is so complex that even with the book in front of me, I can't count with it. I just have to respect it, haha!
Geoff you will have seen this already but for those others who may have not, it's just Portnoy counting the time sigs along a section of the song.
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Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Posted: May 19 2012 at 05:51
Gerinski wrote:
I never heard my girlfriend saying "I like this" when she hears the music I listen to
Returning from a gig one night my wife remarked, "Oh, I never knew I liked Threshold...", however, I think she (and my daughter) had fallen for Damian Wilson's on stage charm more than their music.
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
Posted: May 19 2012 at 06:48
Dean wrote:
Returning from a gig one night my wife remarked, "Oh, I never knew I liked Threshold...", however, I think she (and my daughter) had fallen for Damian Wilson's on stage charm more than their music.
My girlfriend only joined me to one gig ever, Neal Morse, too bad he's not that handsome (it was the Lifeline tour with his european band and BTW Paul Bielatowicz was absent and replaced by some dutch guy I didn't know who was far from as good as Paul which was a pitty).
She assures that she did not "hate it" and we chatted a bit with Neal and his wife which was cool (their children were also around) but she did not actually like it and she never joined me to a gig again.
I recently tried hard to have her joining to The Musical Box The Lamb show as I think she might have more or less appreciated it but no way
I love trying to figure out complex metres. This will show you what a crazy fan I am: I found out there was a book of Dream Theater scores, so I bought it to help me figure some of them out. The song "Dance of Eternity" is so complex that even with the book in front of me, I can't count with it. I just have to respect it, haha!
Geoff you will have seen this already but for those others who may have not, it's just Portnoy counting the time sigs along a section of the song.
I know, even HE messes up trying to count with that one! It's like it's so complicated, you can't count, you just have to feel the beat.
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Never Heard It
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Fox On The Rocks wrote:
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Which part of "never heard it" is causing you the problem Andrey? 
