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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
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Points: 6308
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 15:57 |
maani wrote:
Oliver:
You forgot to mention another use of marijuana hemp before it was banned: American flags! Yup, most American flags made in the first hundred years or so were made from hemp. [N.B. If this were still true, would people be less inclined to burn flags - i.e., to honor the hemp - or more inclined, since breathing the fumes might give you a buzz! LOL.]
Also, you forgot to mention that Coca-Cola contained almost 5% cocaine even into the 1940s.
Peace. |
Haha Absolutly!
Yes, and before Coca-cola, we invented the "Mariani wine" from the name of its creator!
Coca cola has been inspired by it:
Edited by oliverstoned - August 24 2006 at 15:59
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Eddy
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Joined: September 22 2004
Location: USA
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Points: 637
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 21:05 |
HAHAHAH thats halarious!
i used to be a complete druggy, doing way too much weed and drinking till passing out.every day. I have grown up and am tired of such endevers. I still do these time to time, but my life is not ruled by them like it was the last 2 years of highschool. i have not don acid, nor do i feel like doing it, right now :). I have experimented with schrooms and salvia, and i tell you now, hallucigens are fun! And peaceful! i remmeber foundly believing that i was in the middle of an ocean, swimming with the fishes.!! but i also remember a time when i got a bad bacth, and iFLIPPed out and was brought to a hospital becasue my friend were so worried about me. thats when i stopped being a crazy addict. You much watch yourself carfully with drugs, they can sneak up on you and rule and ruin your life. with hallucigens,always make sure you get it from a reliable person. and always make sure you do it with friends who care about you, so you can be tasken care of. drugs are fun, but there are risks. BUT YOU GET F*CKED UP YEAH! 
Edited by Eddy - August 25 2006 at 03:15
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Dreamer
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Joined: March 13 2005
Location: Amsterdam
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Points: 297
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Posted: August 25 2006 at 12:43 |
I was going to tell Freddy off, but I see Maani and everyone else did that well enough.
Just a few things that disturb me (or maybe I just don't get) is that they say weed is a "gateway drug" - a dumb expression in my opinion. True almost all junkies smoked weed before doing shrooms, then acid, heroin or whatever, but aren't people forgetting they drank alcohol, smoked cigs, drank coffee, rotted thier brains infront of the telly before going to smoke weed? Why aren't this things blamed?
Also I don't understand how it's addictive, maybe someone can tell me if I'm missing something... Physically it's proven to be not addictive, but "psychologically" it's apprently a real bummer to get out of. But isn't anything enjoyable psychologically addictive? People who enjoy computer games, television, sex etc. can also be said to be psychologically addicted. From personal experience, I was a rather heavy user (relatively, for my own standard), and one night when I was high, I reached the decision not to smoke anymore. I made myself undersdand and feel that it would be right to stop, and so I didn't touch it for the next half a year almost. No problem. Is that only me? I'm sure it happened to others...
The point fred made about music and drugs made me think of the quote by a famous comedian : "If you have something against drugs, take all your CD's and albums and burn them, cause all the artists who made that great music that has enhanced your life so much were all reaaaaal  high"
Edited by Dreamer - August 25 2006 at 12:44
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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: August 25 2006 at 13:31 |
Dreamer wrote:
I was going to tell Freddy off, but I see Maani and everyone else did that well enough.
Just a few things that disturb me (or maybe I just don't get) is that they say weed is a "gateway drug" - a dumb expression in my opinion. True almost all junkies smoked weed before doing shrooms, then acid, heroin or whatever, but aren't people forgetting they drank alcohol, smoked cigs, drank coffee, rotted thier brains infront of the telly before going to smoke weed? Why aren't this things blamed?
Also I don't understand how it's addictive, maybe someone can tell me if I'm missing something... Physically it's proven to be not addictive, but "psychologically" it's apprently a real bummer to get out of. But isn't anything enjoyable psychologically addictive? People who enjoy computer games, television, sex etc. can also be said to be psychologically addicted. From personal experience, I was a rather heavy user (relatively, for my own standard), and one night when I was high, I reached the decision not to smoke anymore. I made myself undersdand and feel that it would be right to stop, and so I didn't touch it for the next half a year almost. No problem. Is that only me? I'm sure it happened to others...
The point fred made about music and drugs made me think of the quote by a famous comedian : "If you have something against drugs, take all your CD's and albums and burn them, cause all the artists who made that great music that has enhanced your life so much were all reaaaaal  high" |
Or, for that matter, alot of masterpiece artwork and great novels were created by people who were as toasted as a quizno's sub...
Edited by darksinger - August 25 2006 at 13:32
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maani
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Joined: January 30 2004
Location: United States
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Points: 2632
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Posted: August 25 2006 at 14:20 |
darksinger:
True. We forget that before the advent of marijuana, there were plenty of drugs being used by the aristocracy and the artistic community, among them cocaine solution (which was added to drinks), laudanum (a derivative of the heroin poppy, I believe), morphine and opium itself. There were also "tinctures" of various plants and such that had a variety of effects: stimulant, depressant, hallucinatory, etc.
So the use of "drugs" to create "altered states of consciousness" - whether mild or more - has been around since at least the Renaissance.
Peace.
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oliverstoned
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Posted: August 25 2006 at 14:42 |
Laudanum is an alcoholic opium tincture to be precise.
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Certif1ed
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Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
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Posted: August 25 2006 at 17:50 |
Not everything is psychologically addictive - but, not speaking as any kind of expert, I'd suppose anything could be.
I think it depends what you get out of it - if it's something good, then you want to go back for some more. The nicer it is, etc.
It is known that marijuana and other plants like mushrooms, cacti, datura, coca etc. have been used in rituals for thousands of years - long before the Renaissance!
Edited by Certif1ed - August 25 2006 at 17:51
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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spacecraft
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Joined: February 04 2006
Location: Scotland
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Points: 184
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Posted: August 25 2006 at 19:05 |
Why is it alright to say you have taken drugs (illegal in all 1st world countries), and not have your torrent shut down....but mention piracy??????
Double standards are being applied i do believe, or is it ok to fill dealers pockets with illegal pennies, but not take the same from huge money laden Music companies?
How many people have died, from drug money?
How many people have died because of pirating?
Time to get rid of this forum, if there are standards on this site.
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Dreamer
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Joined: March 13 2005
Location: Amsterdam
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Points: 297
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Posted: August 25 2006 at 19:08 |
The site is about music, I belive, so it doesnt want to support piracy.
What does that have to do with the discussion we are having? Why get rid of it? This is helpful, not damaging for people who are interested in the topic. There's nothing wrong as far as i can see...
Edited by Dreamer - August 25 2006 at 19:09
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spacecraft
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Joined: February 04 2006
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 184
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Posted: August 25 2006 at 19:11 |
You obviously miss the point...both are illegal....so why is this still going????????
Then there is nothing wrong in piracy.
Edited by spacecraft - August 25 2006 at 19:12
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Dreamer
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Joined: March 13 2005
Location: Amsterdam
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Points: 297
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Posted: August 25 2006 at 19:16 |
Oh I see... there's nothing wrong with talkinga bout it though, is there? As long as we're not doing drugs and sending music files, its alright. Nothing's illegal about a nice discussion. The act would be considered illegal. But really, I have no authority in this site, I wouldnt argue. Let the moderators do as they see just.
Edited by Dreamer - August 25 2006 at 19:17
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spacecraft
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Joined: February 04 2006
Location: Scotland
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Points: 184
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Posted: August 25 2006 at 19:25 |
And where are they???????????????????????????
Muy point is, you can't say you have copied(pirated) software, but your forum gets closed down, because some moderator gets all anal. But, you can say you have taken/taking drugs? WHAT THE f**k IS THE DIFFERENCE.......I WANT TO KNOW.
Edited by spacecraft - August 25 2006 at 19:41
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Harkmark
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Joined: October 29 2005
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Points: 538
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Posted: August 25 2006 at 20:12 |
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heyitsthatguy
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Joined: April 17 2006
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Posted: August 25 2006 at 20:35 |
spacecraft wrote:
And where are they???????????????????????????
Muy point is, you can't say you have copied(pirated) software, but your forum gets closed down, because some moderator gets all anal. But, you can say you have taken/taking drugs? WHAT THE f**k IS THE DIFFERENCE.......I WANT TO KNOW. |
Because, PA being a music site, discussion of "pirating" could lead to the actual act, as it can be done on a computer, and the moderators don't exactly want the site being closed down just because of the actions of one person. And it's not wrong for one to say they have pirated software, but it is wrong for someone to tell someone else how to do it/lead them into doing it. I've heard many people discuss pirating before, but the only ones I've ever seen yelled at were the ones asking for ways to commit the act.
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goose
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Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 4097
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 04:22 |
spacecraft wrote:
And where are they???????????????????????????
Muy point is, you can't say you have copied(pirated) software, but your forum gets closed down, because some moderator gets all anal. But, you can say you have taken/taking drugs? WHAT THE f**k IS THE DIFFERENCE.......I WANT TO KNOW. |
I'm pretty sure people have admitted to having pirated software/music on here before without being reprimanded.
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Sean Trane
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Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
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Points: 20414
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 05:54 |
oliverstoned wrote:
Laudanum is an alcoholic opium tincture to be precise.
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Let us not forget Absynth liquor, used by most artistes in the early XXth century.
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Philéas
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Joined: June 14 2006
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Points: 6419
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 11:23 |
^ I think I have a bottle of that somewhere.
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mystic fred
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 11:27 |
Dreamer wrote:
I was going to tell Freddy off, but I see Maani and everyone else did that well enough.
no-one told me off, Dreamer, we just had a difference of opinion, in some things everyone has a different point of view!
Just a few things that disturb me (or maybe I just don't get) is that they say weed is a "gateway drug" - a dumb expression in my opinion. True almost all junkies smoked weed before doing shrooms, then acid, heroin or whatever, but aren't people forgetting they drank alcohol, smoked cigs, drank coffee, rotted thier brains infront of the telly before going to smoke weed? Why aren't this things blamed?
The point fred made about music and drugs made me think of the quote by a famous comedian : "If you have something against drugs, take all your CD's and albums and burn them, cause all the artists who made that great music that has enhanced your life so much were all reaaaaal  high" |
i think a good deal of that is myth, are you accusing all musicians of being on drugs??? 
i'm sure there were some but not all.
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maani
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Joined: January 30 2004
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Points: 2632
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 13:02 |
For your reading pleasure, an Op-Ed from today's New York Times:
The Czars’ Reefer Madness
AMSTERDAM
Arjan Roskam, the creator of the award-winning marijuana blend named “Arjan’s Haze,” has dozens of pictures of celebrity visitors on the wall of his coffee shop in Amsterdam. He’s got Eminem, Lenny Kravitz, Alicia Keys, Mike Tyson — but so far, unfortunately, not a single White House drug czar.
The czars have preferred to criticize from afar. In the past, they’ve called Dutch drug policy “an unmitigated disaster,” bemoaning Amsterdam’s “stoned zombies” and its streets cluttered with “junkies.” Anti-pot passion has only increased in the Bush administration, which has made it a priority to combat marijuana.
More than half a million Americans are arrested annually for possessing it. The Bush administration can’t even abide it being used for medical purposes by the terminally ill. Why risk having any of it fall into the hands of young people who could turn into potheads, crack addicts and junkies?
But if America’s drug warriors came here, they would learn something even if they didn’t sample any of the dozens of varieties of marijuana sold legally in specially licensed coffee shops. They could see that the patrons puffing on joints generally don’t look any more zombielike than the crowd at an American bar — or, for that matter, a Congressional subcommittee listening to a lecture on the evils of marijuana.
And if they talked to Peter Cohen, a Dutch researcher who has been studying drug use for a quarter-century, they would discover something even more disorienting. Even though marijuana has been widely available since the 1970’s, enough to corrupt a couple of generations, the Netherlands has not succumbed to reefer madness.
The Dutch generally use drugs less than Americans do, according to national surveys in both countries (and these surveys might understate Americans’ drug usage, since respondents are less likely to admit illegal behavior). More Americans than Dutch reported having tried marijuana, cocaine and heroin. Among teenagers who’d tried marijuana, Americans were more likely to be regular users.
In a comparison of Amsterdam with another liberal port city, San Francisco, Cohen and other researchers found that people in San Francisco were nearly twice as likely to have tried marijuana. Cohen isn’t sure exactly what cultural and economic factors account for the different usage patterns in America and the Netherlands, but he’s confident he can rule out one explanation.
“Drug policy is irrelevant,” says Cohen, the former director of the Center for Drug Research at the University of Amsterdam. It’s quite logical, he says, to theorize that outlawing drugs would have an impact, but experience shows otherwise, both in America and in some European countries with stricter laws than the Netherlands but no less drug use.
The good news about drugs, Cohen says, is that the differences among countries aren’t all that important — levels of addiction are generally low in America as well as in Europe. The bad news is that the occasional drug fad get hyped into a crisis that leads to bad laws.
“Prohibition does not reduce drug use, but it does have other impacts,” he says. “It takes up an enormous amount of police time and generates large possibilities for criminal income.”
In the Netherlands, that income goes instead to coffee-shop owners and to the government, which exacts heavy taxes. It also imposes strict regulations on what goes on in the coffee shop, including who can be served (no minors) and how much can be sold (five grams to a customer). Any unruly behavior or public disturbances can quickly close down a shop.
To avoid problems at the Green House, Roskam has closed-circuit cameras and a staff that urges novices to stick with small doses, and to protect their lungs by taking hits from a vaporizer. Unlike street buyers in America, customers know exactly what strength they’re getting, which is especially useful for the hundreds of people with multiple sclerosis and other ailments who use his marijuana medicinally.
Roskam sneers at the street products in the United States, which he considers overpriced and badly blended. But he acknowledges there’s one feature in the American market he can’t compete with.
“Drugs are just less interesting here,” he said. “One of my best friends here never smoked cannabis, never wanted to even try my products. Then when she was 32 she went to America on holiday and smoked for the first time. I asked her why, and she said: ‘It was more fun over there. It was illegal.’ ”
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maani
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 13:07 |
Certif1ed:
Thank you for the reminder. The Australian aborigines (whose "dreamtime" belief is arguably the oldest known "faith") have used various plants to induce altered states of consciousness for thousands of years. As well, the Native Americans (whose "Great Spirit" belief is arguably the second oldest known "faith") used peyote, mescaline, psilocybin, marijuana and other plants to induce "spirit visions" for many thousands of years.
Peace.
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