The Football Thread

Let's go Atletico!

I know. And football has put me in that sorry situation having to root for the devil  

Chelski > Athletico > Bayern > Real would be my preference

Man U sucked ass over two legs, they scored too early against Bayern and woke them up, they should have defended for 92 minutes then tried to sneak a goal

ExittheLemming wrote: Roj wrote: ExittheLemming wrote: Let's hope Bayern give the red manc scum the flogging they deserve. Sigh.  How bitter, sad and twisted. Yes, I am clearly obligated by virtue of my genetic lineage to wish the best for a club who have single handedly reduced the FA Cup to a consolation prize, (they withdrew from the competition in 2006 under the avowed pretext that this would enhance England's tender for the 2006 world cup which was eventually awarded to Germany yet Bayern Munich declined to participate in the same World Club Championship in Brazil?, never stop whinging about the lost generation of the Munich air disaster (get over it, Torino did- look it up) and are one of the principal reasons for the requisite implementation of the UEFA Financial Fair Play Rules. If the Glazers have the fan's interests at heart why is there the green and gold movement that is quite rightly alarmed at the amount of debt their takeover required? Everyone hates Man Utd, and it clearly ain't jealousy as even when they sucked i.e. after relegation from the old 1st division in the 70's , everyone loathed them then too. Don't you ever dare presume that my allegiances should lie with a club because of where I've been and where I chose to venture to. Understand SON?

Ooooh, sore nerve hit there.  You really are an ABU extreme aren't you.  Try not to take things too seriously SON .

I certainly don't expect you to root for the team, not at all.  We all have teams we like and dislike. 

A bit of objectivity would be nice though.

I don't and have never whinged about the Munich air disaster.  It happened years before I was born.

I wish we'd have stood up to the FA over the FA Cup withdrawal (read the Brian Glanville book to see what really happened).

I hate the Glazers.

Your UEFA financial fair play point is utter tosh.  This is aimed at plastic clubs who are bankrolled from nowhere by a multi billionaire sugar daddy, and make huge huge losses year on year, attempting to hide those losses behind dodgy "sponsorship" deals.  Not clubs who are continually profitable and spend those profits on improving their squad (United before the Glazers came along). 

Incidentally, the best team won the tie.  United gave it their best but are clearly nowhere near the quality of Bayern these days.  Your comment of a team in transition is a little generous to United, credit though that they did make Bayern struggle for some time last night.  The tactics Moyes employed were the only ones with any possible chance of success.  You simply do not beat Bayern if you try to take the game to them and beat them that way - they are much too good for that.  The mark of a class team is that when they get a sniff of a chance they take it and Bayern's response was a hallmark of a top quality team.

The best team does not always win the Champions League, and I have a sneaking feeling that may be the case this year.  If Ronaldo is fit surely it must be Real Madrid's year, but Chelsea's tenacity and Mourinho's nous leaves me thinking they could possibly do it again.

^ I agree with this re Bayern.  Bayern are definitely a little less direct under Pep.  Last season they were like a machine, totally unstoppable.  This season perhaps they have lost just a little something.  If a limited team like my Man Utd can cause them some discomfort then that may give them food for thought.

That Barca team circa 2008-2010ish was truly amazing.  I have never seen a club side to compare with it, they were a thing of beauty with Xavi and Iniesta at their peak but the team also pressed so hard.  The Barca team now pales in comparison.  I must say however I had the great pleasure of watching the El Classico match while in Spain recently and it was truly enthralling.  I loved the way that two huge teams simply went at each other from the off without the slightest thought of caution.  Each team puffed out their chest and said "we're no. 1".  It was a shame there had to be a loser.

Who do I want to win the CL?  It's a tough call, but if Atletico could manage it that would be my preference.  A first time winner would be nice, and I still feel for them after their very unfortunate loss to Bayern in the final of 74 (I think?) when I was a young 'un.  They were murdered in the replay but should definitely have won the first match.

ExittheLemming wrote: Roj wrote: ExittheLemming wrote: Roj wrote: ExittheLemming wrote: Let's hope Bayern give the red manc scum the flogging they deserve. Sigh.  How bitter, sad and twisted. Yes, I am clearly obligated by virtue of my genetic lineage to wish the best for a club who have single handedly reduced the FA Cup to a consolation prize, (they withdrew from the competition in 2006 under the avowed pretext that this would enhance England's tender for the 2006 world cup which was eventually awarded to Germany yet Bayern Munich declined to participate in the same World Club Championship in Brazil?, never stop whinging about the lost generation of the Munich air disaster (get over it, Torino did- look it up) and are one of the principal reasons for the requisite implementation of the UEFA Financial Fair Play Rules. If the Glazers have the fan's interests at heart why is there the green and gold movement that is quite rightly alarmed at the amount of debt their takeover required? Everyone hates Man Utd, and it clearly ain't jealousy as even when they sucked i.e. after relegation from the old 1st division in the 70's , everyone loathed them then too. Don't you ever dare presume that my allegiances should lie with a club because of where I've been and where I chose to venture to. Understand SON? Ooooh, sore nerve hit there.  You really are an ABU extreme aren't you.  Try not to take things too seriously SON . I certainly don't expect you to root for the team, not at all.  We all have teams we like and dislike.  A bit of objectivity would be nice though. I don't and have never whinged about the Munich air disaster.  It happened years before I was born. I wish we'd have stood up to the FA over the FA Cup withdrawal (read the Brian Glanville book to see what really happened). I hate the Glazers. Your UEFA financial fair play point is utter tosh.  This is aimed at plastic clubs who are bankrolled from nowhere by a multi billionaire sugar daddy, and make huge huge losses year on year, attempting to hide those losses behind dodgy "sponsorship" deals.  Not clubs who are continually profitable and spend those profits on improving their squad (United before the Glazers came along).  Incidentally, the best team won the tie.  United gave it their best but are clearly nowhere near the quality of Bayern these days.  Your comment of a team in transition is a little generous to United, credit though that they did make Bayern struggle for some time last night.  The tactics Moyes employed were the only ones with any possible chance of success.  You simply do not beat Bayern if you try to take the game to them and beat them that way - they are much too good for that.  The mark of a class team is that when they get a sniff of a chance they take it and Bayern's response was a hallmark of a top quality team. The best team does not always win the Champions League, and I have a sneaking feeling that may be the case this year.  If Ronaldo is fit surely it must be Real Madrid's year, but Chelsea's tenacity and Mourinho's nous leaves me thinking they could possibly do it again. I never said you even mentioned the Munich air disaster because you didn't, I was talking about how the club have never gotten over this and moved on. It's tiresome and everyone really wishes they would finally shut up about it. Debt incurred to purchase a football club is not included in the UEFA Financial Fair Play rules, so yes I concede these don't apply to the reviled Glazers, but given that high debt levels (secured against the club's assets) have caused Portsmouth, Leeds, Hearts, Rangers et al to come close to extinction, it is perhaps something that the game's authorities need to address. BTW those rather entrepreneurial sounding 'bond/share issues' are no better than begging off the fans to pay the interest on loans the owners cannot afford to service. I like to think we might both agree that it's irresponsible to put an institution like Man Utd's future at the mercy of mercurial venture capitalists.(but this Faustian pact might actually be perfectly apt, see the end of my post for more details) I haven't read Brian Glanville's book but the conventional wisdom on this topic is that Utd were bullied by the British Government, the FA and FIFA into believing that participating in a meaningless competition in South America (the World Club Championship) would curry favour with England's World Cup Cup bid for 2006. The Sports Minister Tony Banks opined that “It is my estimation that a failure by Manchester United to go to the new competition in Brazil – particularly if they were replaced by Bayern Munich – would do irreparable damage to our 2006 campaign,” So, assuming that FIFA were feckless enough to allow such flagrant blackmail to be so easily reported and substantiated in any court of law, Utd, for reasons best known to their witless legal dept, felt they had no option but to withdrew from the FA Cup, go to Brazil and guess what? the country whose team chose NOT to participate were awarded the 2006 World Cup (Germany) If Utd had actually possessed a backbone and insisted they compete in the FA Cup what possible punishment could the Government, the FA or FIFA have meted out? ban them from appearing in competitions like the World Club Championship that no-one gives a flying f*ck about?  They were going to get flak no matter what option they chose but most football fans I know would have forgiven them for the failure of the World Cup bid but are certainly NOT going to forget tarnishing the rich and glorious history of the inimitable FA Cup. Draw your own conclusions but mine range from: the FA and the British Government are incredibly naive and stupid, FIFA are about as trustworthy as a chunky beggar and the Red Devils are the hideously ironic signees on a document leasing the club's immortal soul for eternity. BTW don't ever call me bitter, sad or twisted again

I don't like the way this is heading.  It's a shame as we agree on most points here.

You may have noted I said I wish we'd competed in the FA Cup rather than the daft compy in Brazil.  In fact I was always of the view that they could've sent a weakened squad to Rio to comply if that would have helped but still play in the FA Cup as well as at the time the first team squad was huge.

As you say United would have got flak whatever option they took.  Personally I think they took the wrong one though whether the public would have generally been as forgiving as you think, I'm not quite so sure. 

As for the Glazers, don't get me started .  it isn't right that the club could be took over in this way.  How can it be right that a profitable and well-run institution is saddled with ludicrous debt?  But that's the rules and there's nothing anybody could do about it.  I totally agree with you on this point.

Your comment that initially caused me to post certainly came across to me as bitter and sad and that's why I said it. It's really not surprising someone would draw such a conclusion.  That would have been my view no matter which team you were referring to.  Personally I don't take things too seriously as anybody on PA who knows me will confirm.  I certainly don't hate any other teams (I say this as a United season ticket holder for some 30 years).  I'm always up for a bit of banter but 'scum' is a bit extreme isn't it? 

Generally in this thread you make a lot of sense and having read through quite a few pages I agree with much of what you have said.  I have no desire to become embroiled in any wrangling.  I really don't know whether the last line of your post is tongue in cheek (I would certainly hope so) or some cyber threat.  If the latter this is really rather unsavoury as I am entitled to my opinion too.

Shall we leave things to be and move on? 

ExittheLemming wrote: Everyone remembers what they were doing when JFK was shot and everyone will remember what they were doing then The T posted this...  I know. Football has made me fall that low...  I guess that Barca are entering one of those transitional phases where the old guard start to appear vulnerable and the young un's aren't quite up to the task just yet. Barca has always (well, in recent times) fantastic to move players up from their formative divisions (formed in La Masia, one of the best centers for that in all the world). It's always good to have a strong team with experience to build around them though, and Barca might have something close to that but the FIFA prohibition to sign up players for next year coupled with the absolute lack of defenses and goalkeeper spells disaster for 2015. Transitional phase, yes, but a half-forced, and double-painful, one.

^^ Yes, the ramifications of the transfer ban could be significant short term, but i like to think that Bara are a club that know the long term goal of producing their own players is the only sustainable financial model for European soccer post Platini's financial stipulations. Arsenal adhere to this model but continually fall frustratingly short of winning any silverware alas


Edited by ExittheLemming - April 10 2014 at 08:31

^Love that Teo!

^I like that .

You know the way Arsenal were playing up to Christmas I thought this might just be Arsenal's year. Given the other protagonists they would have been my preferred choice too. The signing of Ozil looked inspired. However those injuries to Ramsey and Walcott have been a killer blow.

The FA Cup beckons though.......