because I'm proud to be an American....

^ the prog gods have smiled on me for some time.. haven't even talked about my drag-racing days in college and the twisted piece of metal that used to be my roomate's Firebird. (word of advice... if you try taking 15 mph curves at 90mph.. make sure you are driving someone else's car)


on a different note..

Raff just lost her Aunt this week and how her family came together and hopefully sewed up some old wounds... and started talking about American families..  she found this. Nice...  hope I am never remembered this way.  Way to respect the dearly departed.  Classy...  could have at least found SOMETHING nice to say

http://www.legacy.com/TimesHeraldOnline/DeathNotices.asp?Page=Lifestory&PersonId=115754551

Micky wrote: ^ the prog gods have smiled on me for some time.. haven't even talked about my drag-racing days in college and the twisted piece of metal that used to be my roommate's Firebird. (word of advice... if you try taking 15 mph curves at 90mph.. make sure you are driving someone else's car) on a different note.. Raff just lost her Aunt this week and how her family came together and hopefully sewed up some old wounds... and started talking about American families..  she found this. Nice...  hope I am never remembered this way.  Way to respect the dearly departed.  Classy...  could have at least found SOMETHING nice to say http://www.legacy.com/TimesHeraldOnline/DeathNotices.asp?Page=Lifestory&PersonId=115754551

Edited by Garion81 - August 17 2008 at 17:41

Garion81 wrote: Micky wrote: ^ the prog gods have smiled on me for some time.. haven't even talked about my drag-racing days in college and the twisted piece of metal that used to be my roommate's Firebird. (word of advice... if you try taking 15 mph curves at 90mph.. make sure you are driving someone else's car) on a different note.. Raff just lost her Aunt this week and how her family came together and hopefully sewed up some old wounds... and started talking about American families..  she found this. Nice...  hope I am never remembered this way.  Way to respect the dearly departed.  Classy...  could have at least found SOMETHING nice to say http://www.legacy.com/TimesHeraldOnline/DeathNotices.asp?Page=Lifestory&PersonId=115754551   Some Lawyer will figure out a way to sue the children for slander. Which brings this thread back on topic.

oh you know it... I actually thought that was a hoax at first.

and back on topic

The Doctor wrote: It makes no sense to choose 6 (or 12) bumbling idiots off the street, to decide people's fate, over that of an educated, trained judge.

Well, it makes less sense to assume that the selected twelve are "bumbling idiots."  At worst, they're representative of the population.  If one has even a modicum of respect for democratic ideals, then one must admit that such representation, despite certain flaws, is a desideratum.  In any case, is it not the point of voir dire to weed out such "undesirables" (undesirable, of course, for a variety of sometimes questionable reasons)?

Another point: education and training do not necessarily prevent a judge from also being a "bumbling idiot."  In fact, such a background may reinforce certain class interests and prejudices.  Moreover, if one distrusts his peers so much, then he can elect to waive his right to a trial by jury--you can have a bench trial, if you choose, but it's your constitutional right to be judged by your peers, again a basic premise of democracy.




Edited by WinterLight - August 17 2008 at 20:03

Angelo wrote: Hmmm.... talking of bumbling idiots. We had a lawyer here who let a child killer off the hook two years ago because of a procedural error - she's now the lead judge at the same court where that happened. Can you believe that?

we're Americans .. .we've seen it all before

Atavachron wrote: micky wrote: I probably would have voted guilty anyway...  he didn't look like...ahhh.. a model citizen that would've gotten you off jury duty in a NY minute

yeah.. see I watched TV...  tell them what they want to hear .. not what you think.  I wanted the break from work.. hell....they gave me lunch money hahahha.

seriously though.. I was having doubts... but a small  rural town in NC.. with the combined educational level of my fellow jurors being less than my age.  Even if I had serious doubts ... I probably would have had to bend.. .. it wasn't exactly a jury of his peers. 

gotta love the south....

oh really?... must say.. I thought it was fascinating from an intellectual side to see the way the wheels of justice really work.   

you got $8  man ....  I could have had lunch AND dinner on that hahhaha.  We got $4 bucks a day .. via  a check  AFTER the trial hahahha

Atavachron wrote: rough.. we got cash each day and a nice lunch, guess I shouldn't complain

all there was in town was a Hardee's.... back before they upgraded the menu.. which I guess is a good thing.. that $4 wouldn't have even bought you a burger. 


yeah.. couldn't complain though...  I got the check in the mailbox before my wife got her talons on it...and got to cash and keep it

The Doctor wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: I never had much faith in the jury system anyway ... why should a couple of random people be more qualified to reach a verdict than a judge, who has spent the better part of his life dealing with laws and lawsuits?   I agree completely.  It makes no sense to choose 6 (or 12) bumbling idiots off the street, to decide people's fate, over that of an educated, trained judge.  I've been in enough courtrooms (as an advocate, not as a defendant...) and seen the kind of people who make up juries.  It's scary indeed.  Many of them often look like they should be defendants in criminal proceedings themselves.  On the other hand, I've seen a few judges who could use to do a little time in the pen too.