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axeman
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 13 2008
Location: Michigan, US
Status: Offline
Points: 235
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Posted: February 28 2017 at 15:59 |
Please, elitism is typically found in those with inferior in critical skills.
Edited by axeman - February 28 2017 at 16:00
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-John
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Merrimack Mike
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 07 2013
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 10
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Posted: March 02 2017 at 07:49 |
Well, you know, I needed time to get my thoughts together Thanks for the encouragement.
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2014
Location: Mar Vista, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 4812
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Posted: March 02 2017 at 09:59 |
I am!!
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: March 15 2017 at 16:45 |
For me the GG discography is thin at one end,much much thicker in the middle and then thin again at the far end.
rogerthat wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
OK, then. What is your explicit definition of "complexity?" Also site the hundreds of examples discussed on this site. I'm failing to locate them all. What in the world does the term "prestige" have to do with complexity?
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It was an obvious hyperbole. Secondly, prestige was a wrinkle another poster introduced into the topic to artificially devalue popularity, so you may please take that up with him. I have no idea either what is the relevance of prestige. |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Upbeat Tango Monday
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 10 2015
Location: Buenos Aires
Status: Offline
Points: 1189
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Posted: March 17 2017 at 11:23 |
Soooo....I can say Justin Biever and Britney Spears are prog artists, because they are the evolution of pop music and they are better than "technical w@nkers" like Yes and ELP. If we lack parameters, progarchives makes no sense. Let's just add The Sex Pistols and Madonna in order to screw "elitists".
I do consider Pink Floyd and Porcupine Tree to be below average bands. It's not because I'm an elitist, it's because I love prog rock and I don't consider them progressive, and, in turn, they are not my cup of tea. I don't like simplistic radio-friendly pop songs. PERIOD. I repeat, it's not elitism, but internal logic. If someone comes here and says he loves Pink Floyd, Porcupine Tree, Tool and Radiohead above all...I consider them to be rock fans and I almost expect them to hate Yes and ELP. It's not that I see them as inferior (no elitism whatsoever), it's just that those guys might not like prog. We have Maiden, Sabbath and Metallica in the database...so, am I an elitist if I tell you I consider them inferior as prog bands? Really?
If I go to a hard rock forum and they have Jethro Tull in there because of Crest of a Knave, for instance...I expect Thick as a Brick to lose polls against almost every AC/DC album. It's as simple as that. Should I call them elitists for saying Thick as a Brick is an inferior hard rock album? should I diss those who think Jethro Tull is not even a rock band? hell no!
BTW, prog is a static genre with set parameters. Those, like Steven wilson, who claim prog rock is "whatever new thing that moves music forward" are wrong. If those guys were right, then punk rock is prog, electronic music is prog, boy bands are prog, etc... sorry to burst your bubble, but this is yet another music genre, not the be-all and end-all, not an all-encompassing wonder.
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Two random guys agreed to shake hands. Just Because. They felt like it, you know. It was an agreement of sorts...a random agreement.
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Mystic Mamba
Forum Groupie
Joined: October 17 2016
Location: Austin, Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 82
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Posted: April 13 2017 at 23:05 |
This is a tricky subject. I have occasionally been guilty of being a prog elitist, but I have recently opened my mind to a lot of other music outside of the prog-sphere. As you can see, my profile pic is the cover of Aurora's debut album, "All My Demons Greeting Me as a Friend", which has only the faintest tiny hints of anything resembling prog, yet it has become one of my all time favorite albums. People need to realize that it's okay to like a multitude of different genres, and each genre is beautiful in its own way. We all know that Pink Floyd never reached the technical wizardry levels of Yes and ELP, but their music never really required that. It's okay if you don't like it that much, but it's not okay to say that they are obviously "worse" just because the music doesn't contain something your ears have grown to expect. Each band's style is unique and should be appreciated as such.
That's my two cents on the subject of prog elitism. Broaden your minds!
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Thatfabulousalien
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2016
Location: Aussie/NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 1409
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Posted: April 13 2017 at 23:18 |
My definition of Elitism is pretty much: Pretentious a****les that care too much about their opinions and can't accept disagreement
There are elitists everywhere, prog in itself isn't that special either. I love Prog but it's not some privileged, unknown music that nobody likes
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Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.
https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: April 14 2017 at 02:37 |
Elitism boils down to two inter-related diagrams:
The premise there is that Prog and other higher-brow forms of music occupy more of the 10% Not Crap segment than other genres, however Sturgeon's Law applies to all - 90% of Prog is also Crap just as 90% of Classical music is Crap and 90% of Jazz also. The skill of the elitist is to compare the 10% Not Crap of their pet genre with the 90% Crap of all other genres, or as I tend to put it: compare the best of what you like with the worst of what you don't.
Beyond that esoteric discussion on complexity are an interesting diversion that some do for the sheer pleasure of delving into the why's and wherefore's and the challenge of exploration while others merely high-jack those discussions to justify the above Venn diagram.
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What?
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2dogs
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 03 2011
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 705
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Posted: April 15 2017 at 23:31 |
I regularly visit a cafe where the radio plays the current UK pop chart. That 10% you mentioned is taking an awfully long time to come round .
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"There is nothing new except what has been forgotten" - Marie Antoinette
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: April 16 2017 at 00:22 |
2dogs wrote:
I regularly visit a cafe where the radio plays the current UK pop chart. That 10% you mentioned is taking an awfully long time to come round .
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The state of the UK pop charts has always been lamentable but that isn't a measure of quality, it merely contains a lot of what I believe is called "urban contemporary music"; none of which I care for so I am not qualified to judge whether any of it is good or bad. That I have that fecking "Human" song currently going around in my head suggest that even though personally I cannot stand it, there is some hitherto unconsidered metric that my subconscious recognises which singles this tune out. By the standards that we measure "pop" passing old grey's whistle test is a fair indicator of Not-Crap.
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What?
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2dogs
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 03 2011
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 705
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Posted: April 16 2017 at 06:26 |
Dean wrote:
That I have that fecking "Human" song currently going around in my head suggest that even though personally I cannot stand it, there is some hitherto unconsidered metric that my subconscious recognises which singles this tune out. |
Aargh did you have to mention that one ? It does stand out though for actually copying and pasting snippets of a few different sounds rather than 1/4 of a Kraftwerk bassline.
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"There is nothing new except what has been forgotten" - Marie Antoinette
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2dogs
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 03 2011
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 705
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Posted: April 16 2017 at 06:30 |
Was it the mention of Kraftwerk that produced the "I'm not a robot" test? And I had to select parking restriction signs in German. See how this meaningful coincidence business works?
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"There is nothing new except what has been forgotten" - Marie Antoinette
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15926
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Posted: April 16 2017 at 07:10 |
What's this Human song ?? Never heard it.....
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mlkpad14
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 23 2017
Location: U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 665
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Posted: April 16 2017 at 07:35 |
Tom Ozric wrote:
What's this Human song ?? Never heard it..... |
It's by this Rag N' Bone guy...
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https://gamecrazyprofessional.weebly.com/
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: April 16 2017 at 07:38 |
It's an ear-worm, I advise against listing to it
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What?
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mlkpad14
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 23 2017
Location: U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 665
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Posted: April 16 2017 at 07:42 |
Dean wrote:
It's an ear-worm, I advise against listing to it |
I agree wholeheartedly.
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https://gamecrazyprofessional.weebly.com/
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rock96
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 21 2017
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 7
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Posted: May 21 2017 at 22:25 |
I also love Elton John also. Elton John, Madman Across the Water, Captain fantastic and yellow brick road are top tier albums in my collection. Seen Fleetweood Mac in concert back in 2009 unleashed tour they kicked ass but were missing Christine McVie
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Blaqua
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 06 2016
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 242
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Posted: June 20 2017 at 18:06 |
The fact that some or many of a band's songs or albums do
not belong to the progressive rock genre (for example Dust in the wind/Down the
Road by Kansas
or Bastille Day by Rush) makes some people doubt or deny even the progressiveness
of such bands' progressive songs. I personally consider Kansas a hard, prog, folk, classic rock band,
I classify them in several genres, and at the same time I don’t deny their progressiveness.
They have written great prog tracks.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65435
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Posted: June 20 2017 at 20:17 |
Prog was an age, not a genre; an era wherein rock music unexpectedly peaked in a post-Beatles world more than it was something band-based.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Thatfabulousalien
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2016
Location: Aussie/NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 1409
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Posted: June 20 2017 at 20:30 |
If your going to be elitist about anything, please make it about the protection you wear when you ****
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Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.
https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325
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