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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 09:50
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

I think that when you want to expand your collection and you only rely on reviews, you really need a lot of time on your hands ... Wink
 
what? Musst I believe  you are in such a hurry to buy albums that you don't have time to read reviews.
 
Mike, what you said is absurd, I open Prog Archives and have a review for the album I want normally, no need of time or anything
 
If I don't buy more albums is for lack of money, US$ 3,000 a year is my limit to expend.


BTW: I would be curious which albums you get ... I guess you won't, but you can always use the PF playlist. You don't even need to submit any ratings or tags to put albums on the playlist ... Smile
 
Mike, you know my problem with your site, is not friendly for me.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 10:59
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

I think that when you want to expand your collection and you only rely on reviews, you really need a lot of time on your hands ... Wink
 
what? Musst I believe  you are in such a hurry to buy albums that you don't have time to read reviews.
 
Mike, what you said is absurd, I open Prog Archives and have a review for the album I want normally, no need of time or anything
 
If I don't buy more albums is for lack of money, US$ 3,000 a year is my limit to expend.



You mean if you want to buy new albums, you go to the Prog Archives start page and look for reviews that get you interested in something? Well, I also read reviews occasionally, but usually I'll stick to albums that are highly rated by either a lot of people, or single reviewers that I can trust. For example, a 8/10 (4 stars) rating by avestin or Windhawk (together with a few tags, like "Symphonic Prog Rock" is good enough to give an album a try.

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:


BTW: I would be curious which albums you get ... I guess you won't, but you can always use the PF playlist. You don't even need to submit any ratings or tags to put albums on the playlist ... Smile
 
Mike, you know my problem with your site, is not friendly for me.
 
Iván
 



It's been a while since you reported the problems, and since then I've made a lot of changes. Besides, nobody else is reporting problems ... if you like you can try again and let me know if there are still any problems ... even if you decide not to use the website for playlist, ratings or tagging I would still be curious about those problems.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 11:05
Please guys, allow this discussion to take place elsewhere "por favor" 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 11:22
Sure, we got carried away ...

anyway, about the top 100 list: a while ago I made a suggestion, not sure if you read it so I'm posting it again:

Instead of making one list of the top 100 prog albums, why not make two lists:

1. Top 50 classic prog studio albums (1967-1975)
2. Top 50 prog studio albums (1976-*)

I think this could be very interesting ... and the most important prog albums would always be at the top.Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 11:26
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Sure, we got carried away ...

anyway, about the top 100 list: a while ago I made a suggestion, not sure if you read it so I'm posting it again:

Instead of making one list of the top 100 prog albums, why not make two lists:

1. Top 50 classic prog studio albums (1967-1975)
2. Top 50 prog studio albums (1976-*)

I think this could be very interesting ... and the most important prog albums would always be at the top.Smile


All you have to do to produce those lists for yourself is to use the year filter.  Here are the results for the "classic" period you described:

http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp?ssubgenres=&salbumtypes=1&syears=1975&syears=1974&syears=1973&syears=1972&syears=1971&syears=1970&syears=1969&syears=1968&syears=1967&scountries=&sminratings=1&smaxratings=0&sminavgratings=0&smaxresults=100&x=56&y=4#list
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 11:52
Good job Epignosis and thanks for the suggestion Mr. ProgFreak !

I will take your consideration and create shortcut list to the

1. Top 50 classic prog studio albums (1967-1975)
2. Top 50 prog studio albums (1976-*)

In the TOP PROG ALBUM tool

sounds good ?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 11:57
^ thanks, I'll have a look at the lists! But my suggestion was really to change the list on the front page. Many people see the list and then complain about newly released albums creeping into the top 100, or their favorite album from the classic era not being listed. Separating the classic era from the following albums on the front page emphasizes the importance of that era, while still allowing all the following albums in the separate list.

But it's only a suggestion ... Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 11:58
I just add the link to the shortcut  Top 50 classic prog studio albums (1967-1975)

I'll have to work a bit of code for the 1976+ list

thanks for the suggestion
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 12:01
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 12:03
Should we also add other ERAs ,

suggestion:

- the dark 80s
- The prog revolution era 1997+

Any better time frame important or era suggestions ?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 12:08
Mr. ProgFreak , pease have a second look of the recent TOP 100 algo. changes list and no more "new released album" is hunting the list anymore, or maybe I miss something.

All the TOP 100 album worht their place in my mind ?!

But I understand your point, but PA cover the whole PROG so in the front page I would still go with the TOP 100 and I am open to create some shortcut list in the TOP PROG ALBUM tool page like the CLASSIC ERA.

?!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 12:14
^ I like the top 100 list as it is, and I know you dealt with the newly released albums ... I just had that idea of splitting the list and thought that it might solve the problem elegantly, without tweaking the algorithm. Like I said, it's just a suggestion.Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2009 at 18:52
After looking at the 1976 on list, there are albums which I consider classic prog. Hemispheres, Elegant Gypsy, Leftoverture. Wouldn't it be easier to just have the albums 1967-1980 and then 1980 on? Although most people agree prog lost popularity and seemed to lose quality in 1976, there are still some 'classic' as opposed to 'modern' prog albums in the years shortly after.
 
Then again, I'm a teenager, so my idea of 'classic' is probably different from most people here.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2009 at 19:06
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:



You mean if you want to buy new albums, you go to the Prog Archives start page and look for reviews that get you interested in something? Well, I also read reviews occasionally, but usually I'll stick to albums that are highly rated by either a lot of people, or single reviewers that I can trust. For example, a 8/10 (4 stars) rating by avestin or Windhawk (together with a few tags, like "Symphonic Prog Rock" is good enough to give an album a try.
 
This is a good pointy Mike, an issue I always wondered about.

Before Internet, I used to buy albums I hated later, speciallyy because Prog is rarely played in the radios, much less in Perú.

The last album I bought without reading reviews or listening samples was OVO, and I hated it, bought it only for the Peter Gabriekl name and wasn't reaklly a Peter Gabriel album.
 
Since them I read reviews and of course try to listen samplers, won't say it's perfect and i love every album,. but at least i know what go expect, I already paid too much money for albums like Love Beach, ABACAB, A La Carte, etc, only because I liked the band.
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:




It's been a while since you reported the problems, and since then I've made a lot of changes. Besides, nobody else is reporting problems ... if you like you can try again and let me know if there are still any problems ... even if you decide not to use the website for playlist, ratings or tagging I would still be curious about those problems.
 
I will try, as a fact I will ask you to create a Symphonic account for:
  • movingpictures07
  • tszirmay

In the Symphonic chart and cancel all except the ones for Debrewguy, Guigo and me (the one for E-Dub will be suspended because I believe he wants to focus in Neo Prog at least for a while.

Thanks Mike
 
Iván
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2009 at 19:59
Originally posted by M@X M@X wrote:

changes list and no more "new released album" is hunting the list anymore, or maybe I miss something.



I think this is definitely a negative change.  When a new album is released or a rare album with high ratings hits the 25th review, it would sometimes crack the top albums list, but it would always stabilize afterward and I would always check the album out when that happened.  As the list is right now, it gives too much weight to the number of reviews, so bands like dream theater that are more well known get pushed way ahead of great albums with much higher ratings (btw I am a big DT fan so its not bias).

This will apply not just to the top 100 list but to custom lists to it seems, so for example if i'm trying to search for symphonic prog albums, instead of finding albums that arent well known but have great ratings, ill see the entire (progressive) discography of yes and genesis.

I like the idea of letting newcomers to the site see the classic well known albums, but I think the changes might have been overdone and it decreased the site's ability to get the word out about little known amazing prog albums.

I understand that what I want is still not hard to find, it this isnt a horrible thing im losing sleep over, im just trying to make an argument for the other point of view.  I think decreasing the weight you have given to the number of ratings would be a good idea.  Thanks for the work you do continuing to improve the site.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2009 at 20:08
Originally posted by rpe9p rpe9p wrote:

Originally posted by M@X M@X wrote:

changes list and no more "new released album" is hunting the list anymore, or maybe I miss something.



I think this is definitely a negative change.  When a new album is released or a rare album with high ratings hits the 25th review, it would sometimes crack the top albums list, but it would always stabilize afterward and I would always check the album out when that happened.  As the list is right now, it gives too much weight to the number of reviews, so bands like dream theater that are more well known get pushed way ahead of great albums with much higher ratings (btw I am a big DT fan so its not bias).

This will apply not just to the top 100 list but to custom lists to it seems, so for example if i'm trying to search for symphonic prog albums, instead of finding albums that arent well known but have great ratings, ill see the entire (progressive) discography of yes and genesis.

I like the idea of letting newcomers to the site see the classic well known albums, but I think the changes might have been overdone and it decreased the site's ability to get the word out about little known amazing prog albums.

I understand that what I want is still not hard to find, it this isnt a horrible thing im losing sleep over, im just trying to make an argument for the other point of view.  I think decreasing the weight you have given to the number of ratings would be a good idea.  Thanks for the work you do continuing to improve the site.


I do tend to agree.  I think at this point there's too much weight given to number of reviews, which reduces the visibility of some other great albums (many of which I might have missed had this been implemented before).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2009 at 21:55
Overlooked albums cannot be in top 100 because they are overlooked that is why we have a forum and reviews ....

You can still use my SHORTCUT to list the TOP 100 Little Known But Highly Rated Studio Albums of All Time

And tweak the query up to your taste....


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2009 at 22:34
Yeah I was talking more about what is not well known from the perspective of a person who is new to the site.  For example, some of the first new bands I discovered with this site were bands like PFM that have great ratings and a decently high number number of views, but not nearly as many reviews as the most well known.  If when I first came to the site these bands had been in the top 100, but not in the top 25 or 50, I probably wouldnt have checked them out until I became more familiar with the site and bought a lot of the albums from the classic bands.  Basically I just think the old rating system promotes diversity of music for new prog listeners and I just want them to have the same great experience with the site that I did.

ps That new overlooked feature is great by the way.  Like I said though that feature is great for me but not so much for people who are new to the site (who are least likely to try custom searches as well).


Edited by rpe9p - May 17 2009 at 22:36
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2009 at 23:25
So I noticed when perusing a list for prog folk

 (http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp?ssubgenres=6&salbumtypes=1&syears=1981&syears=1980&syears=1979&syears=1978&syears=1977&syears=1976&syears=1975&syears=1974&syears=1973&syears=1972&syears=1971&syears=1970&syears=1969&syears=1968&syears=1967&scountries=&sminratings=1&smaxratings=0&sminavgratings=1&smaxresults=250&x=58&y=9#list)

The 4 star rated albums (at least) are in order from fewest ratings to most, when the reverse should, generally, be true!

Why?

This is not how it was when I looked at the same list a while ago.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2009 at 02:04
I generally agree.

but, not one The Flower Kings album? if albums are chosen by votes, then progarchives fell in the same hole most charts fall. the most popular is not (always) the best. riverside is ok, but 3 albums on top 100 seems too much, also, if Pideaux's Doomday's Afternoon is there, why not some Beardfish, or ... Transatlantic?!! Wacko

i do like the fact that Animals is on 8th and the wall is on over 90. i like the wall but musically, Animals is much more prog. imo.



Edited by Arnold_Layne - July 23 2009 at 02:05
I Could have bought a Third World country with the riches that I've spent
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